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Old 07-14-2014, 06:54 PM   #46
speakingtohe
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Only three ways I can think of at the moment to make ebooks lendable with sufficient security is to make them difficult/expensive to copy, unbreakable DRM or online verification. I don't personally see these as advantageous.

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Old 07-15-2014, 12:55 AM   #47
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The best security against unauthorized copying is actually to make purchases more valuable than darknet editions.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:18 PM   #48
speakingtohe
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
The best security against unauthorized copying is actually to make purchases more valuable than darknet editions.
True, but how to do it. Not practical to have a better price than free, and discounting enough to reduce piracy significantly would likely cut revenues in
1/2 or more so. Autographed editions would be valueless if everyone got one.
Include the paper book maybe an incentive to a small percentage. It is being done, but I hear no sales of spectacular success. Can't give extra content because that could be pirated as well.

I am stymied.

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Old 07-15-2014, 07:24 PM   #49
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For starters, there is the whole "offering less hassle" thing... one of the big drivers of piracy is that sometimes hunting down badly-formatted ebooks hidden somewhere on one of 15 different torrent indexes is easier than trying to give money to publishers.

Interesting link: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070215/002923.shtml

excerpt:
Quote:
So why aren't the same people who insist that you can't compete with free whining about any other competitive market situation? Because they know that, left unfettered, the market adjusts. The makers of automobiles keep trying to adjust and differentiate their cars through real and perceived benefits (such as brand) -- and that lets them add value in a way that they can make money and not have to worry about having products priced at marginal cost. If a company can't do that, it goes out of business -- and most people consider that a good thing. If you can't compete, you should go out of business. But, when it comes to goods with a $0 marginal cost, even though the net result is identical to goods with a higher marginal cost, suddenly people think that you can't compete? The $0 price makes no difference. All that matters is the difference in price you can charge to the marginal cost. Everyone else learns to differentiate -- why can't those who produce infinite goods do the same?

The answer is that they already do -- even if they don't realize it. Why do movies still cost more than $0? Because there's additional value bundled with the movie itself. People don't buy "a movie." They buy the experience of going to the theater. People like to go out to the movies. They like the experience. Or people buy the convenience of a DVD (which is another feature bundled with the movie). They like to buy DVDs (or rent them) in order to get the more convenient delivery mechanism and the extra features that come with DVDs. In other words, they like the differentiated value they can get from bundled goods and services that helps justify a price that's more than $0. Just as people are willing to pay more than the marginal cost (in some cases a lot more) to get that car they want, they're willing to pay more for a bundled good or service with content -- if only the makers of that content would realize it.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:11 PM   #50
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For starters, there is the whole "offering less hassle" thing... one of the big drivers of piracy is that sometimes hunting down badly-formatted ebooks hidden somewhere on one of 15 different torrent indexes is easier than trying to give money to publishers.

Interesting link: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070215/002923.shtml

excerpt:
I think it is pretty easy for most people to get books from distributers. Not all distributers and not all books and not all distributers, but most people do not have a problem. Problems happen, but they are the exception, not the rule. I can only speak for myself and those I know personally, but it seems less difficult overall than buying a physical item online or B&M.

Lots of people buy DVDs and go to movies, because they want the DVDs or like the giant screen. Not sure how DVDs are more convenient, I have thousand or so but have long since transferred anything I wanted to to hard drive. I don't watch much TV but my sister does, and she loves the shiny cases. My sister buys a DVD or so a week and wouldn't have a clue how to pirate. Doubt she would even if she knew how.

My point is that those that go to the movies because they like the experience or buy DVDs because they feel they are value added already do so. They are not the pirates. (well maybe a few of them are)

But where is this added value in the sense that it has been added to make buying more attractive then piracy as the article seems to imply? Many movie theatres have grown smaller than they used to be with smaller screens and the seats are smaller and the popcorn is certainly not any better IMO. (used to be popped fresh and had real butter at one time even at the drive in) And DVDs have not improved content in any way that can't be pirated either AFAIK.

Making it cheaper and easier to buy will definitely cut back on new pirates, but unlikely to deter those who do so already.

Well again I am going on and on. Sorry for that.

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Old 07-16-2014, 02:18 AM   #51
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Cheaper has nothing to do with it, and you are right -- most people don't pirate.

Some people would pirate regardless -- they have some sort of fetish for not paying for anything.

Most people only pirate when they are in a situation where they are being actively prevented from purchasing from the rights-holder. I think that qualifies as "make buying [not] more attractive".

Thank you for agreeing with me.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
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Cheaper has nothing to do with it, and you are right -- most people don't pirate. [...]
Which is pretty much what Hitch said, most people don't pirate. The thing is that those same "most people" will happily casually copy, often not knowing any better, and that's where DRM comes in. It's far from perfect, but it does make pirating something that has to be done explicitly - by people who know what they're doing. So it seems we are all in agreement. Isn't that a happy outcome!
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:38 AM   #53
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Which is pretty much what Hitch said, most people don't pirate. The thing is that those same "most people" will happily casually copy, often not knowing any better, and that's where DRM comes in. It's far from perfect, but it does make pirating something that has to be done explicitly - by people who know what they're doing. So it seems we are all in agreement. Isn't that a happy outcome!
Precisely. DRM has no impact for the serious criminal, but it definitely deters casual piracy. Pretty much the same reason you have a lock on the door of your house: it won't stop a serious housebreaker, but it is a signal to the casual passer-by that it's not OK to just pop inside and take whatever you fancy.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:21 AM   #54
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Digital products should have the same rights to sharing as physical products. Not less, and not more!
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I don't disagree with this, but how can one accomplish the not more part?
Actually, I've been working on that. Setting aside the debate about whether license terms actually do any good, and assuming for the sake of argument that they do (yes, big assumption, let's move on), I've been trying to write an ebook license to do just that, as closely and reasonably as possible. Here's what I have at present:

Quote:
You may transfer your license for this ebook to another person just as you would transfer ownership of a tangible book: by giving one copy to that person and destroying any and all other copies you may have made. Doing so completely transfers your license and all the rights that come with it to the recipient as the new licensee. If you are unable to completely transfer or relinquish your license for any reason, such as an inability to remove the book from a download library, you may not transfer it. The author explicitly retains all of the rights granted under established copyright laws, while explicitly granting the licensee the right to shift the format of this work (ie. from EPUB to MOBI) for personal use. If you're reading this book and did not purchase it, or it was not given to you under the provision above, please visit your favorite ebook retailer and purchase your own copy there. Thank you for respecting the hard work of this author.
Any thoughts?

(Oh, and should anyone wish to use/swipe/steal that license for their own use, have at it. Be my guest, just don't say you wrote it. Leave it unattributed, or credit "Robert L. Hood" if you feel the burning need to credit someone.)

Last edited by Rev. Bob; 07-24-2014 at 06:25 AM.
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