Epub 3

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

There's only a point in that if lot of people do the same, then there is some reactions.
But then, seeing the number of people that have no problem with apple and amazon...

What do Apple and Amazon have to do with Epub3 and tracking users? Seems like a better complaint against Google and facebook.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

What do Apple and Amazon have to do with Epub3 and tracking users? Seems like a better complaint against Google and facebook.

Nah, i'm speaking about the "lock-in" thing. People sometimes accepts anything... And they're keeping record of book you've bought, when you've downloaded them most likely. as all shop does mind you.

I'm not that worried about tracking (my e-reader can't ring home anyway). And IMHO, you're still an anonymous among the anonymous.

It's more the "ads on books" that posing problem. (and other let's use some fanny, not compatible everywhere enhancement.)

[speakingtohe]

Theoretically we can all be tracked by any purchase made except for the ones where we use cash.

We are tracked by cookies,our ip addresses as well, and possibly our MAC addresses.

If I browse many online stores I will often see a list of recently viewed items, and these lists seem to be different on different devices. I used to think it was all about cookies, but now I am thinking that there are several methods.

While I don't like the idea, I have given up worrying about it.

Helen

[Fugubot]

Plib,

Trolls are people who rant. I was merely trying to address Katsunami's statement that "(Paper) Books are one of the very few things that are not spoiled by ads" which is simply not a fact. Maybe Katsunami didn't buy books with ads but I worked in paperback publishing and ads in mass market paperbacks have been common practice for decades. How you read into this that

Originally Posted by plib

...there's some trolls trying to tell us that it's all a big misunderstanding and not to worry about it.

is just bizarre. There are legitimate concerns about new technologies but Katsunami's point was based on a contrast that is not true for entire market segments of publishing. Nonfiction is where much of this advertising occurs but nonfiction also outsells fiction 5 to one.

Hope the voices you're hearing (the ones trying to con you into that "interactive, tracking, advertising abomination") find some peace.

[Katsunami]

Maybe non-relevant ads are prohibited in the Netherlands, but I never saw anything else but "Also written by this author" or "Also published by X" on the inside of the back cover. And I certainly never saw any ads *inside* the story.

[QuantumIguana]

I used to see ads in paperbacks a long time ago, but I haven't seen them in years. I would just tear them out and throw them away, they were printed on card stock, and were easy to tear out. The most I have seen lately is a page to two at the end advertising other books from the same publisher or author, but they are at the very end and are easy to ignore.

I don't think readers are demanding interactivity. Readers just want to read books. Throw all the garbage on there you want, but pretty quickly, it's not a book anymore. An e-book is basically a glorified text file, and that is all it needs to be.

[davidwfleming]

Originally Posted by darryl

When does a book cease to be a book?.

This is exactly the question at hand. The reading community and authors need to draw a line in the corporatized sand here. "This much and no further!" A book is just words. Period. No ads. No Twitter or Facebook stream. No animations (sorry, use your imagination. That's what it's for.)

The funny thing is to hear executives defend this stuff. They will defend anything. It's illustrative to remember that these individuals have been indoctrinated to view their customers as 10-year-olds. So, in their mind, their subconcious thought process is always, "Would a 10-year-old like a book with all these distractions: Yes!"

However, when we consider that there is already considerable pushback from older demigraphics to adopt ebooks in the first place, these types of moves may be a form of self-sabotage for the industry.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by davidwfleming

This is exactly the question at hand. The reading community and authors need to draw a line in the corporatized sand here. "This much and no further!" A book is just words. Period. No ads. No Twitter or Facebook stream. No animations (sorry, use your imagination. That's what it's for.)

The fact that these things CAN be done doesn't mean that they are appropriate for all books, but there are certain types of book for which they would be extremely useful.

Imagine, for example, a book about bird recogition which could play audio samples of the song of each bird, or a physics textbook with animated diagrams illustrated physical principles. As a member of the "reading community" myself, I can see this as being extremely useful, when used appropriately.

[heySkippy]

Originally Posted by ab78727

The thing is that they haven't learned anything from the digital music industry. Does anyone remember how bad the world used to be when DRM'ed music was around? Formats galore, locked to one PC, horrible sync software, losing music when changing PCs, etc. Nasty business.

I'm no fan of DRM, but I don't remember it being anything like that. The only thing the DRM prevented me from doing was giving the digital file to someone else. There was just one format, it played on all my computers and all my devices and was never a problem to move when I upgraded. I've still got all those tracks, and they still play just fine.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by heySkippy

I'm no fan of DRM, but I don't remember it being anything like that.

I do. iTunes music only worked with iTunes. Several retailers started offering music downloads for sale that only worked with Windows Media Player and others with yet a different proprietary music player - and they all had different catalogs so there was no "one stop shopping" if you were looking for specific songs.

I didn't buy many music downloads back then, mostly because having a collection that required the use of three different music players got tedious real fast. And more than half of what I had was no longer playable when the companies stopped selling music files.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Maybe non-relevant ads are prohibited in the Netherlands, but I never saw anything else but "Also written by this author" or "Also published by X" on the inside of the back cover. And I certainly never saw any ads *inside* the story.

Those kind of ads are usually the last pages in the books and I really don't mind. Sometimes that can even give you an idea for another writer.

I would mind product placement in my books, but I can't remember ever seeing that in either dutch or english books.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

An e-book is basically a glorified text file, and that is all it needs to be.

This. I want a book, not a glorified video game, not gimmicky badges, not "interactive" crap, not "embedded magical genies"... and no big brother, and I don't want to bug all my facebook friends.

Just because I push a button on a device doesn't mean I want it to sing and dance. I want to read, just like on paper.

I am cool with the technological advances. I mean I own an e-reader (although not a cell phone or tv or car). But if the technological advances mean my introverted bubble of personal activity becomes a "social" thing, watch me run the other way screaming.

Good thing my guitar and knitting needles are all analog

[Katsunami]

You still do analog knitting? Poor you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1qdbJBqxg

(And it's so relaxing too )

You know Zawinski's Law?

Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.

At a certain point, e-readers and tablets will converge. The Kindle Touch already has Facebook and other social network integration. I really, really detest those Facebook / Twitter / Google+ / LinkedIn icons. I don't have any of those profiles, but still, in each and every device or program I use, I encounter them. As if anybody is interested in what I'm doing all the time.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You still do analog knitting? Poor you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1qdbJBqxg

(And it's so relaxing too )

You know Zawinski's Law?



At a certain point, e-readers and tablets will converge. The Kindle Touch already has Facebook and other social network integration. I really, really detest those Facebook / Twitter / Google+ / LinkedIn icons. I don't have any of those profiles, but still, in each and every device or program I use, I encounter them. As if anybody is interested in what I'm doing all the time.

I use social media for things that actually are social. But yes, I still am an old fashioned knitter, using two sticks and wool (often handspun on spindles). I love it and have been knitting that way for almost 40 years. (and I knit socks, too).

(edit)
As for e-readers and tablets converging, I'm not certain I want something like that. I don't know what a tablet is (is it a handheld computer or something?), but I am happy with an e-reader just being something I stick my own files on and read. I wouldn't have bought a separate, dedicated e-reader, which is expensive, otherwise. I don't even use the wifi on it except to nab a library book.

[QuantumIguana]

There may be a convergence between e-readers and tablets, the e-reader really is a computer already. This will only take place once the tablet has all of the advantages of an e-reader.

I haven't seen a VCR for sale in years. Combo DVD/VCRs, yes, but not standalone VCRs. No one can make them cheaply enough. It will be the same with tablets. The lower price of the e-reader is a huge advantage. When the price of the tablet comes down so much that no one can make a reader that is cheaper than a tablet, then there will be convergence.

There is also the lighter weight, lower power consumption and easy to read e-ink screen that dedicated e-readers offer. These are advantages that tablets still have to overcome if there is to be a convergence.