E-books drive older women to digital piracy

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by tlrowley

I especially liked the article that used "grannies" in the headline - "grannies"? Seriously?

I know, right? I fall in that over-35 demographic and my children are 7 and 10

I don't download pirated ebooks, but I know plenty of women in my age group that do. I am a proud member of the "mix tape" generation.

And speaking for my age group, the people doing it know it's illegal. They sometimes justify it by saying that they only pirate books they'd otherwise not purchase (i.e. they do purchase books they consider keepers)--I have no way of evaluating their truthiness on that.

[Prestidigitweeze]

People in the habit of calling thirty-year-olds grannies should stop to consider the ages they and their daughters would have to have been when their children were conceived.

You say you're concerned because you're twenty-two but your girlfriend just turned thirty? That wouldn't worry me nearly as much as the fact she was pregnant at thirteen years old and so, apparently, was her daughter.

Holy Jerry Lee Lewis times two.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Joykins

And speaking for my age group, the people doing it know it's illegal. They sometimes justify it by saying that they only pirate books they'd otherwise not purchase (i.e. they do purchase books they consider keepers)--I have no way of evaluating their truthiness on that.

Well, I'm glad you can speak for your entire age group.

I myself know many people of many different ages who don't automatically know how to tell if a copy is legal or not. Apparently even AMAZON can't always tell if the people uploading books to their site have the publishing rights.

[Joykins]

Excuse me; the people I KNOW understand that using the bit torrents (or whatever) to get ebooks is illegal. Just like they knew the old Napster was illegal. They just don't care. But then again, the people I know in this age group who read tend to have at least a minimal sense of situational awareness.

It is true you don't know whether a copy is legal if you don't know how it was obtained; generally one takes on trust that a reputable company like Amazon has obtained things legally.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Joykins

It is true you don't know whether a copy is legal if you don't know how it was obtained; generally one takes on trust that a reputable company like Amazon has obtained things legally.

Like this one on the MR Deals forum today?

http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-Worl...5837942&sr=1-9

Sorry, not trying to pick a fight with you... just trying to make my point that piracy is complicated. If *I* can't tell if this is a pirate copy or not (and I really don't know whether it is or not!), I don't know what help there is for less-copyright-savvy folks like my older sister.

[Joykins]

Short of the situationally unaware, we KNOW that downloading ebooks from the darknet is illegal. Which is what the original article is talking about and I don't believe that most people of my generation are so naive as to think otherwise.

We DON'T KNOW if the thing we buy from a store is illegal or not but TRUST that it is legal enough to cover our butts and keep us (as consumers) out of legal trouble. The store may have issues though. I agree there is gray area if the store has not done due diligence. But I don't think end-consumers are held accountable (or should be) for that sort of thing.

I think I'm agreeing with you, kind of. It's kind of like the difference between buying a TV that "fell out of a truck" and buying one at an electronics store. You KNOW the first is stolen, the second you have made a good-faith attempt to buy legally. It could have been stolen somewhere along the chain but you have no real reason to think so.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

People in the habit of calling thirty-year-olds grannies should stop to consider the ages they and their daughters would have to have been when their children were conceived.

Last time I looked, teenage mothers aren't exactly a rare thing. I'm sure-- if you looked-- you'd have little trouble finding grandmothers in their early 30s. It is the ones in their early 20s that are a bit more uncommon:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mother-23.html

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Short of the situationally unaware, we KNOW that downloading ebooks from the darknet is illegal. Which is what the original article is talking about and I don't believe that most people of my generation are so naive as to think otherwise.

And what I'm saying is that contrary to popular belief, The Darknet isn't LABELED "The Darknet".

I've never used torrent in my life, and wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to, but I guarantee you that if you google just about any book ever, you will find a site to download an electronic copy of that book within the top ten google results.

Here's an example of a book I want to buy in ebook form:

http://www.ebooks.com/470857/the-cou...ok/isaak-mark/

Is this site reputable? I have no easy way to tell. I CAN tell you that the price varies from $13 on Amazon for a mobi version (no longer available - why? Issues with publishing rights? Red flag? I don't know!) to $17 on ebooks.com for pdf to $68 dollars on B&N for epub!!

http://inkmesh.com/ebooks/countercre...onism+handbook

If I find a website hosting it for free, how do I know if it's a legal copy or not? The answer isn't immediately obvious - this PARTICULAR book is a quite literal "book of the webpage" that the author first published in paper form for people who wanted a hardcopy. I can easily imagine a scenario where the author put the ebook out for free download, seeing as how it's ALREADY available for free on his website because it IS his website.

I'm rather frustrated at this meme that pirated copies are clearly marked with a skull and crossbones image on the download page. If nothing else, there are a lot of "gosh, I thought this would be public domain" books out there (like "Brave New World") that actually - surprisingly in some cases - aren't.

If I was a publisher, I would not expect every person on earth to thoroughly research whether or not ebooks.com is a reputable seller or whether or not the "J.K" on Amazon who uploaded Harry Potter for sale a few years back is the real deal.

We need an easily accessible database, fed by the publishers, containing a list of their titles, whether or not they are legally published in ebook form, and (ideally) links to those sites. Until then, we shouldn't be surprised if people accidentally download illegal copies from Google and Amazon.

EDITED TO ADD:

And if that "Brave New World" copy I just bought on Amazon is an illegal copy, then Amazon is now officially The Darknet too. Please notify them so that they can incorporate the skull and crossbones into their logo.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=133791

The real question is whether or not the people who buy it from Amazon are guilty of anything. I suspect the publisher will feel differently than the readers/buyers.

[carld]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

just trying to make my point that piracy is complicated.

Honestly, it's not that complicated. Any adult who can read is intelligent enough to have a pretty good idea if something is pirated or not. And pointing out 1 illegally uploaded book out of nearly 1 Million isn't much of a counter example.

[carld]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

If I find a website hosting it for free, how do I know if it's a legal copy or not? (

You know full well if B&N is selling it for $68 then the site offering it for free is likely pirating. It's really not that confusing. Yes, you'll find some exceptions if you look hard enough, but that doesn't disprove what should be really obvious.

And we don't need a database of titles, we just need a little honesty and common sense.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Last time I looked, teenage mothers aren't exactly a rare thing. I'm sure-- if you looked [(ardeegee muttered with just a tinge of venom)] -- you'd have little trouble finding grandmothers in their early 30s.

Teen mothers are not uncommon, but thirteen-year-old mothers whose daughters, too, become mothers at thirteen are a bit less common.

More importantly and more relevantly, teen grannies aren't signposts for a sane and tranquil middle-class existence. In each case, how old was the father and what circumstances led to pregnancy? Was incest or molestation involved? If the father was contemporary to the mother in age, then what did this boy's parenting role turn out to be and how was the child raised and treated ultimately?

I suspect that thirty-year-old women on Mobile Read aren't likely to put themselves in such disturbing positions (so to speak), nor are said positions what we wish to happen to the grannies among us.

How many of our Mobile Read members foreswore middle school to raise a tot? How many thirty-year-old grannies are we likely to find here really?

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I suspect that thirty-year-old women on Mobile Read aren't likely to put themselves in such disturbing positions (so to speak), nor are said positions what we wish to happen to the grannies among us.

How many of our Mobile Read members foreswore middle school to raise a tot? How many thrity-year-old grannies are we likely to find here really?

We shall soon see.

[Kenneth_irl]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The question not addressed: how many of them have downloaded ebooks that have a legit version available in their area?

Pirating the Harry Potter books is not damaging anyone's sales, because there are no digital versions to buy.

Indeed.

I personally find it problematic how some corporations/organizations define that a download equals a lost sales. It could of course be seen as a smart move on their side to make things look more bleek so that they'll in turn gain more political leverage, ect. It might even be used as a propaganda tool to harden the hearts of people against people who downloads illegally.

But

I really don't think this is a good practical strategy as people such as myself are disgust by this manipulation/propaganda of theirs. And don't get me started on the filthy, outrageous lawsues against teenagers/young folks that have no chance in hell to pay these fines back(if they still do this. I haven't read about a case in some time now).

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by carld

Honestly, it's not that complicated. Any adult who can read is intelligent enough to have a pretty good idea if something is pirated or not. And pointing out 1 illegally uploaded book out of nearly 1 Million isn't much of a counter example.

Well, then, perhaps you can clear up for me whether or not the two books I linked to are pirate copies, because I would honestly like to know.

Since you clearly consider yourself intelligent enough to know if they are pirated enough, you should be able to answer my questions about The Counter Creationism Handbook and the posted Brave New World copy.

Anxiously awaiting your response, and thank you.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by carld

You know full well if B&N is selling it for $68 then the site offering it for free is likely pirating. It's really not that confusing. Yes, you'll find some exceptions if you look hard enough, but that doesn't disprove what should be really obvious.

And we don't need a database of titles, we just need a little honesty and common sense.

And as *I* pointed out, Amazon was selling the book for $13 last year and ebooks.com is selling it for $17. Are they pirate sites because B&N charges more? I know FULL WELL that there's something odd here, but what, precisely, I don't know. (Also, you're not even reading my posts, obviously - I already explained why a copy might be free since it's a book of a website that is freely available; literally, you could go to the author's webpage, hit PRINT and have the book right then and there.)

Assuming that B&N is right may not be the best way to go - my personal theory is that B&N accidentally priced the ebook off of the self-published HARDCOVER (which is indeed ~$70) rather than the self-published PAPERBACK (which is selling on both Amazon and B&N for ~$15).

I've got tons of honesty and common sense, but I haven't been able to make heads or tails of this. B&N CS hasn't responded to my emails, and I've never heard of ebooks.com before and don't know if they're a reputable site. At this point, I'm thinking about just downloading the source website to pdf and calling it a day, but I'd RATHER the author get my money.

So, basically, it is more complicated than you're making it out to be. Sorry.