what's the catch ?

[Baldrake]

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

We'll call them bloody Yanks if it makes you feel better, ok ?

If you're willing to go with "damn Yankees", then even the Americans in the crowd will be with you.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Book readers tend to be older, which means they can generally afford to buy a few books/ebooks and did not grow up with the idea that copyrighted material is free on the internet. It isn't clear what will happen as the book buying cohort shifts towards the internet generations. An advantage book publishers have is that they already convinced readers to pay at multiple price points for the same material. However, in the long term I can't see any way for ebooks to be priced above $6-7 within 6 months of their release. We won't really know what ebooks "should" cost (i.e. their market price) until they dominate the market, which I would put at about 25% of a publisher's total revenue.

I think that people will continue to buy paper books, just not as many, and electronic readers will come to completely dominate the world of reading for pleasure or in education, and paper books will be consigned to museums and specialized antique bookshops in a few decades. Printed books won't disappear, just loose their primacy.
And digital books will be sold online, and will be available for free also, because there is no stopping information in the digital era. And most people outside of the few countries who try to stop it with draconian punishments will choose to download them for free, except for those who have different ideals, have an excess of money or simply want to reward their favorite authors.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

most Americans don't steal.

Neither do I.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Pablo, in English, the word for people who live in the US is "Americans." You live in South America, so you are a South American. I live in North America, so I am also a North American.

Both you and him are also Americans, because there are two Americas, the South and the North, so according to the traditions of the English language anyone living in either of them is American technically, even though the term is usually used for USA citizens. Anyone living in Asia is Asian, anyone living in Africa is African, so anyone living in either America is American.

[DiapDealer]

I thought you were simply asking for opinions here??

Do you really think people are interested in your systematic dismissal of their personal reasons for purchasing an ereader?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by queentess

I will be sure to pirate your software so you cannot earn a living from it
I like to pay authors for writing books so that they can earn a living from it and write MORE books for me to enjoy.

What would be your stance on people pirating Dorchester books when the writer has stated that they are no longer paying any of the royalties they are owed on those books? If they sent 10% of the asking price direct to the author would that make any difference?

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

Tangibility is irrelevant, as is the ease with which the work could be duplicated.

It is absolutely relevant ! A chair takes time and materials to make, and if you steal it the owner has lost the time and materials it took to make it. And it takes time to make another chair. It also takes time to write a book, and therefore people should be compensated for doing it, but by volunteers who like it. It takes no time or effort to make another digital copy, and if someone copies a file from someone else over the Internet, the author isn't losing any money from his pocket, unless you're counting theoretical money, which doesn't legally count anwhere else ! By that logic you could sue the whole world for doing anything because you might have been rich otherwise ! I might have gone to the moon if not for who knows what ! Don't build that house there because I might be rich if you don't ! No one knows if anyone who copies a file from the Internet would have actually payed for it if he had had to. How can you put someone on trial for something they might have done ?

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

Do you honestly believe that the laws in place to protect the creators if intellectual property should not exist?

The best protection for any piece of "intellectual property" is to make it good enough or usefull enough so that people who use it will WANT to pay you money.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think widespread piracy would be as good for ebooks as it was for mp3 12 years ago. It will create a demand for hardware readers, that demand will drive prices down to a level that the mainstream readers will want to pay. Once those people buy their readers they will be looking for content to buy for it. Most likely they will get their content from the same place as their reader, or if they buy an independent reader they will go to sites they have heard of and trust.

Exactly, the sharing of information is good for business in the longterm. Media companies always complain about mp3 piracy as hurting their business but in truth it boosts their profits, because some people who otherwise wouldn't buy music listen to songs for free and then buy them because they really like them and want to reward the author.
I won't buy digital books because if I'm paying I'd rather have paper (and I don't have a huge storage problem yet) but if I read a book for free and really like it I will buy it on paper for my book collection and the author will have his due and everybody happy. All they have to do is be good enough to be worth it.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I bought my reader to read books that don't exist in paper form or if they do they are too expensive on the second hand market to justify. Pros for buying ebooks rather than downloading them for free (to me) are:

1. more likely to read it.
2. I can buy it as soon as it comes out, I don't need to wait for someone to upload it.
3. At the price I pay it's not really worth spending time looking for a free one.

Those aren't true for me, book prices are higher here then in the US so it's definitely worth the time (and it takes very little time), I'm not more likely to read it because I won't buy or download anything I'm not planning to read, and I usually read books at least a couple of years old.

[paola]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Paying others for THEIR intellectual property is a form of enlightened self interest. We consider people like you, a common thief. Sorry for being so blunt, but that's true for a significant number of Americans.

not just Americans

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

Much of the basic research occurs at publicly funded institutions such as Universities.

sure, but as you say somebody pays the researchers to do so - be it general taxation, or student fees - nothing is for free, and these researchers' time is paid for!

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by =X=

Let me paraphase, for you the only real reason to buy an ereader is so you can pirate books?

Yup. And one other person who I know who owns an e-reader.
Except for portability maybe, but I don't generally need more then one book on a trip.

Originally Posted by =X=

And you asking those of us if we are really willing to pay for books and why.

Nope, I was asking why buy e-readers. I pay for books and so do many other people I know, but all in paper form.

Originally Posted by =X=

The reason is convince, portability, and features. I'm not sure if you actually read ebook. But in my experience most folks that read ebooks have a hard time going back to paper. There advantage of eBooks far exceed those of paper.

Of course I read digital books, why would I be here otherwise. Paper books still have a special appeal for me.
And it seems most people still prefer paper to electronics by far, free or otherwise.

Originally Posted by =X=

From the dictionary:
American:
1. of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants: an American citizen.
2. of or pertaining to North or South America; of the Western Hemisphere: the American continents.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I do, but a surprising number of publishers don't.

In that case I'd just download the book from somewhere else and send the money by PayPal to the author if you can contact him.
I actually asked one author for one of his stories that came out in some magazine, he sent it to me by mail and rejected my offer of paying via PayPal.

Originally Posted by mikeayers

books not taking up space is my reason. Plus you don't break the spine of the books either.

I hate it when paper books get all ruffled up, like damaged you know... I read mine really carefully so they look as new as possible afterwards. BTW, thanks for not diverging into moralizing like some other people but just answering the question...

Originally Posted by leebase

I am in a darkened room right now and have no problem reading (I use an iPad). I can set the font size larger. I can look up the definition of a word just by pressing on it. I can find and buy books instantly. No having to drive to a store or to the library. I have an iPhone and can pick up from where I left off when I am out and about. And yes, there are lots of free books like the Baen Free Library or Project Gutenberg. My iPad is a lot easier to take around with me than a hard back and my iPhone easier still.

I read only 3 paper books last year, all from the library. Each time it just reminds me how much more pleasurable I find reading on my iPad or iPhone is to reading a paper book.

Interesting, I only use e-paper based e-readers because white/black screens that emit light hurt my eyes. I used to read on my computer before sometimes, but I'd use a neutral purple-gray background.
As for all the other features I mostly don't care about them AT ALL. I don't need a dictionary, I practically never run into an english word I don't understand, I don't need annotation, I have my smartphone for taking notes...
The only feature I really need - hierarchical folder support - they still haven't implemented on Sony's readers ! Frack it !

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

So, in other words, Americans have found a new way to scam the rest of the planet: intellectual "property." You can no longer dominate the world via industrial production, so you (i.e. American capital) plan to dominate it by controlling key "IP" in crucial sectors such as the military, medicine (think of patents used to profit off the suffering of millions in the third world), and communications. Your lifestyle has been subsidized by the blood of countless other people inside and outside of your country, a country founded on the conquest of land from indigenous people, the enslavement of Africans, and the exploitation of its own working class, and loot plundered from abroad. You have no right to speak to anyone of thievery.

ROTFL, I agree with most of what you said (though not everything), but you're gonna get some major flak here (though maybe you're just trolling and looking for flak )...
And aren't you American ? I think I have an above-average knowledge of geography but I don't know of any other Baltimore then the one in the US.
EDIT : checked Wikipedia, there are others, mostly also in the US, but none big enough to really matter...
Anyway, the guy who wrote that didn't do the conquest/genocide of natives/African enslavement/exploitation himself so it's a bit unfair to put him in that basket...

Originally Posted by elemenoP

My reason is pretty specific: my local library is closed for 2 years for renovations, but they are part of a large system that has a great ebook collection.

I haven't been to a library in over 10 years, though I visit bookstores often and sometimes buy something. The reason I stopped visiting my closest library is because I hate it when you start reading a series and then can't finish because they don't have the last part, or someone loaned it (the Internet wasn't even around in those days)

Originally Posted by elemenoP

I think there is another reason for ereader sales: giving as gifts, to people who may or may not use them in the long term. Just because it's a new and fun gadget.

Hmmm, didn't think of that. Thanks for contributing one more reason.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Those medicines would not exist if drug companies did not invest billions in research, most of which doesn't work out to anything. Unless companies can make a reasonable return on investment from those few drugs that do work, the research won't happen at all.

Reasonable return is just one of the possible steps :
1. working pro-bono, volunteering, charity, where you spend time and effort for nothing
2. working non-profit, where you make just enough for your expenses
3. working with a reasonable profit, enough for you to earn for a decent living and not rip off your customers, sometimes even doing something usefull for society that's not directly profitable
4. working for as much profit as you possibly can without hurting anyone, taking as much money from people as you can get away with even if you're disgustingly rich and don't need anymore
5. working for as much profit as you possibly can INCLUDING hurting other people if it suits you and increases your profits
Now most companies are in the 4th category for obvious reasons, while oil companies and weapons manufacturers are definitely in the 5th, and drug companies could be in 3-5, depending on the company and their behaviour (but mostly 4 I'd say).

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by DMSmillie

And have a look at the history of pretty well any country in the world, and you'll see the oppression and displacement of one cultural group or another, enslavement, exploitation. There are plenty of places where it's still happening.

That's true but most countries aren't located on recently stolen territory - EVERYONE's ancestors killed SOMEONE to come where they are, except for the Eskimos maybe, there's almost no place on Earth where the majority of the population are the first humans who came there, but mostly it happened at least a millenia ago, or several millenia ago in some cases, but in the US it was happening a century and a half ago. And USA had wide-spread slavery and it's wealth is in large part based on that, and the same goes for many other countries but not all certainly. So you can't say the history of the US is just like everyone else.
Anyway, what matters is how things are now... And teaching history right.

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

I did not imply that intellectual property is an American invention. I implied that it was the new means by which America planned to keep its place as global hegemon

Actually, it seems to me it's the military/technological supremacy that's their main means of keeping the position of the global hegemon (and the domination and spreading of their culture as an effect of that).
I wish the UN was the greatest world power and that all including the smallest countries decided together how to shape the world's course but it's never going to be like that. Not as long as people are greedy for power and superpowers armed to the teeth.

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

a position articulated by people with as great a divergence of opinion as Samir Amin and Jaron Lenier. And while many countries have human rights abuses in their past, the system of organized exploitation and expropriation perpetrated by the West and specifically by the United States is unique in its intensity and in the degree which it has shaped the modern world. There have been massive migrations in the past, that it is true. But generally these migrations have resulted in the blending of peoples, not their annihilation. The Arabs, for example, formed an upper class that gradually absorbed (Arabized) the the peoples they conquered (or not: Iran became Muslim without becoming Arab). The Spanish, while brutal conquerors in some sectors of their empire, interbred and merged with their subject peoples in others (although there is a clear racial hierarchy such as in pre-Morales Bolivia, for example). The American (and Australian) style of displacing or slaughtering the indigenous inhabitants, while not unique, is a.) indicative of the style of conquest that became typical of emerging capitalism and b.) justified by an ideology, tracing its routes to John Locke, that is still very influential. Critiquing the Barbarian migrations or the Mongol holocaust would be academic at this point. Critiquing the various shades of capitalist ideology is still to the point.

Regardless of position, that was quite eloquently put ! Shows knowledge and culture...

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

Oh yes, 2 years, and who wants to place bets about whether this government project will be done on time? Originally they were just going to put in a handicapped ramp but now they are going to overhaul the whole building, keeping the exterior and giving it a new interior. The building is a historic landmark built by the Carnegie family over 100 years ago. So guess how much this project is costing us taxpayers? $2.7 million.

The local library here as well as the main city library were redecorated but much more quickly and cheaply, still done good though.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Well, this might get a little political, but....

It has already unfortunately...

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

IP laws are pretty much universal by now, although not necessarily strongly enforced everywhere.

Yeah, some people don't believe old grannies and little kids should be doing hard time for downloading an MP3 or two... Same as cutting off a hand for stealing a loaf of bread.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

And where do you live? The Land of Teddy Bears and Candy Canes?

Pretty much every society has an extensive history of violence, brutality, oppression and exploitation.

Well you can find some in every one, but not in the same quantities. And what he said about the USA being founded on territory conquered/stolen from the original owners is true (and like I already said the same goes for everyone but not that recently).

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

They definitely do more than you acknowledge; e.g. Pfizer can easily spend $7 billion a year on R&D. It's usually up to the pharmaceuticals not only to run (and fund) human trials, but also to bear responsibility in the event that a drug fails and/or actually harms patients.

In theory. In practice there's often a cover-up.
Remember that scandal with the western pharmceutical companies testing drugs on poor children in Africa which supposedly hurt some of them ? They'll do anything for money...

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

If the US doesn't do it, someone else will.

Oh they did (USSR), and they will (China).
Doesn't mean the world should be like that.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

To wit, the Chinese don't particularly hold IP in high respect, and they are a good candidate for exerting global dominance in the 21st century. You really think they're going to treat anyone all that much fairer than the US has?

I think worse maybe. They're already implementing exploitative/harmfull colonialism in Africa, the kind the european superpowers of the 19th centuries practiced earlier.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

*cough* Japan's invasion of Manchuria *cough* China in Tibet *cough* Zimbabwe under Mugabi *cough* Chile under Pinochet *cough* Iran under the Shah, Iraq under Hussein, Saudi Arabian government....

Sorry but why's Iran under the Shah on that list ? As far as I know it was a pretty benevolent, democratic and progressive regime, especially compared to others on that list. Maybe I'm not informed enough ?

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Spanish conquistadors as a model of ethical behavior in invasions and colonial rule? That's your position? Really?

I think he just put them up as an example of conquerers melding with the conquered.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

The only difference between the US and everyone else is a) how good we are at it, and b) how little Americans acknowledge their imperialism. Americans may believe they are exceptionally virtuous, but that is no more true than the idea that they are exceptionally evil.

Completely agree with you there. Americans are no better and no worse then anyone else, everyone has the potential to hurt others when in power. The problem is USA is currently the one in power (well the biggest single power anyway) and so the one with the most potential to misuse that power (and they have misused it before).

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by queentess

I will be sure to pirate your software so you cannot earn a living from it

Oh feel free to do so, by all means !
The more you spread it around the more famous it will become and the more people will choose to give me money.

Originally Posted by queentess

I like to pay authors for writing books so that they can earn a living from it and write MORE books for me to enjoy.

So do I. But only for my favorite authors/books.

Originally Posted by queentess

It has absolutely nothing with the idea of "free information".

Oh yes it does.

Originally Posted by queentess

I choose to pay for my entertainment.

So do I, when I go to the cinema or the theater, I pay for the service. And if I ever copy a file of the Internet, I certainly pay for that service - to the one who's doing the service - the electrical company.

Originally Posted by queentess

I don't understand why that makes me such a terrible person in your opinion???

Omg, who ever said you were a terrible person ? I never called anyone on this forum a terrible person (though some have unjustly called me a thief), you can pay for whatever you will and not be a terrible person !

Originally Posted by queentess

Your stereotype of Americans is laughable. Did you learn about Americans from your local media?

Nope, actually know a couple of them personally and lots more over the web, all are decent people as far as I know.
And why would I learn about the Americans from local media when your own media are the most telling. And your actions and behaviour.
And that wasn't a stereotype, that about the Americans having an extremely capitalist mentality on average compared to the rest of the world is a fact (look at the US health service or education in comparison to the rest of the world) and the reason for that is it's history like I said. Now the Americans being fat or stupid - that is a stereotype.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sorry... invoking the "but I love the smell" clause has unfortunately triggered the "drivel" filter in my personal conversation firewall.

LOL
Sorry, but I do love the smell of freshly printed paper, and the smell of fresh electronics being unwrapped, and the smell of fresh rubber/leather (not in a perverted way ), and the smell of fresh food, and the smell of fresh girls , and the smell of a fresh forest after the rain...
I like anything fresh...

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by Baldrake

If you're willing to go with "damn Yankees", then even the Americans in the crowd will be with you.

Hey, I wouldn't go that far...
Bloody Yanks is what people say when irritated by someone's trait that's specifically American, damn Yanks would be cursing them, and I don't have anything against them...

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I thought you were simply asking for opinions here??

Do you really think people are interested in your systematic dismissal of their personal reasons for purchasing an ereader?

I was asking for opinions, and I didn't dismiss any opinion stated here (except for the one stating that I and other people who believe in free information are thieves, because that is just pure bollocks and not an opinion). Your opinion on e-readers and e-books was interesting and usefull, I just compared your habits with mine, I don't see what's wrong with that, didn't dismiss anything. If you're not interested in my opinion and my reasons then just don't read my response... The only systematic thing here was the debate and exploration of reasons for buying an e-reader or reading digital books.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

What would be your stance on people pirating Dorchester books when the writer has stated that they are no longer paying any of the royalties they are owed on those books? If they sent 10% of the asking price direct to the author would that make any difference?

I think it would.