Marketers Test Ads In E-Books

[khalleron]

I have to say I don't really understand the logic of it - broadcast TV and radio have ads because that's their only source of revenue.

People actually are willing to buy books - and pay pretty hefty prices for them, considering the amount of content that is actually there. There's no need for this form of revenue stream.

Don't sell ads, just sell the damn books.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

That's a matter of trademark contract between the author & the product owner; they'll want to control how the product is displayed in the book...It'd have to be a top-line bestseller for Mercedes to think it'll reach enough readers to bother with the contract negotiations.

Elfwreck, are you sure that the manufacturer has any say? Raymond Chandler routinely had his wealthy characters driving Packards. I doubt that Packard had any say in the matter.

Times change, and maybe you are right, but that is news to me.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Elfwreck, are you sure that the manufacturer has any say? Raymond Chandler routinely had his wealthy characters driving Packards. I doubt that Packard had any say in the matter.

Times change, and maybe you are right, but that is news to me.

"Product placement" is old hat in TV and movies. The costs charged participating advertisers help fund the productions.

But TV and movies are mass media, reaching millions. I can't see any advertisers bothering to try for it in books. The potential return simply isn't worth it. Nor would an author have any reason to agree to write such things into the book. The purpose of the ads is to subsidize the purchase price for the reader. The author sees only an indirect benefit if more books sell.
______
Dennis

[emellaich]

I'm not as convinced as the rest of you. I think the public as a whole is really sold on the 'free' model. Make it free and I think the numbers will rise.

In the old days, search engines were ad free. Then we saw the Go.com and google and advertising in search results. With google in this game, I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar result.

As you are reading your book, the right column, just like Google, has ads relevant to the page you are on. Your characters are on a date in a skating rink, and in the right hand column is an ad for a skating rink local to you - click it to get discount tickets and/or a reservation. The 'hero' travels to vermont to follow up on a tip, and to the right is an add for a bed and breakfast in vermont. As they enjoy a tasty pancake breakfast with real maple syrup, you can order syrup direct from the manufacturer.

This would necessitate several changes in ebook readers. I wouldn't want them stealing my six inches of reading space, so the screen would need to add a one inch strip to the right (subsidized by Google/Amazon so it didn't cost me extra). This would only be cost effective for advertisers if they could really drive sales, and you would need interactivity -- click on the ad to order. This means faster response than eink, and online connectivity.

I know that most of you aren't in favor of this, but I do think free sells. Forget about how its always been done. The question is whether the mass market will support it. For free, or very low cost books I think it will.

Another version of this is that it may not even be for full length books. I agree that it would be tough to subsidize those to zero. How about short stories? Download a six 'page' short for free and it comes with margin ads. The truth is that I don't like short stories, but it might be a modern version of "Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine" or "Amazing Stories"

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by emellaich

The truth is that I don't like short stories, but it might be a modern version of "Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine" or "Amazing Stories"

Apropos, I received my February copy of Ellery Queen in the mail today. That mag is remarkably free of ads.

Maybe this discussion of ads in eBooks should be focused on non-fiction books, as the fiction magazines like EQMM and Alfred Hitchcock (America's number one selling short story magazine) can't seem to sell any ads.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Apropos, I received my February copy of Ellery Queen in the mail today. That mag is remarkably free of ads.

Maybe this discussion of ads in eBooks should be focused on non-fiction books, as the fiction magazines like EQMM and Alfred Hitchcock (America's number one selling short story magazine) can't seem to sell any ads.

The digest size fiction mags have always had problems attracting advertising. One question is who would bother to do so. And there's a technical issue as well: page size. Most ads are actually prepared for the standard sized magazines, and placing an ad in a digest requires creating one in that format. Analog SF Magazine made a go at being ad supported in the mid-60's, shifting the larger format to attract ads from people like technical advertisers. They were unable to convince the advertisers their claimed demographics (scientists, engineers and the like) were real, and after a run of about 18 months reverted to digest size when the paper contract came up for renewal.
_______
Dennis

[Hellmark]

If I pay for a book, I don't want Ads, plain and simple. If they do it as a promo thing, where you get the book for free, but it has ads, well, thats ok

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by emellaich

As you are reading your book, the right column, just like Google, has ads relevant to the page you are on.

Google gets away with this because putting text in the right column still leaves me with several inches of screen space. On a 3.5" wide screen, there's not much room for a column of ads.

Your characters are on a date in a skating rink, and in the right hand column is an ad for a skating rink local to you - click it to get discount tickets and/or a reservation.

Click what? My PRS-505 doesn't have an internet connection.

This would necessitate several changes in ebook readers. I wouldn't want them stealing my six inches of reading space, so the screen would need to add a one inch strip to the right .... and you would need interactivity -- click on the ad to order. This means faster response than eink, and online connectivity.

I don't want an extra inch to the right. I want to upgrade to one of the 5" screens that can fit better in a pocket. And I don't want (1) companies peeking over my shoulder while I'm reading nor (2) stupid ads about bed linens and lightbulbs to clutter my erotica books. (Maybe they'll advertise Starbucks' coffee while the characters are having breakfast. Which is nice, except I don't drink Starbucks', and I'm very picky about my coffee. The characters have a romantic dinner, and they offer me, what, reservations at a restaurant? A selection of wines? I don't buy either of those.)

I know that most of you aren't in favor of this, but I do think free sells. Forget about how its always been done. The question is whether the mass market will support it. For free, or very low cost books I think it will.

Free *books*, with the nuisances you mention, would be popular. The question is whether the products would sell enough for advertisers to subsidize those books.

Google ads work because millions of people see those ads; if a tiny fraction clicks on them, they're successful. A bestseller ebook gets, what, 20,000 viewers? Reading on different devices, some of which have no connectivity, many of whom won't be interested in the particular thing being advertised. If the bestseller, normally $15, is going to be *free*, that's a lot of sales to generate from a very tiny pool of viewers, compared to google or tv shows.

How about short stories? Download a six 'page' short for free and it comes with margin ads. The truth is that I don't like short stories, but it might be a modern version of "Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine" or "Amazing Stories"

Has all the same nuisance problems, plus the fact that short stories get fewer sales. (The big publishers haven't yet figured out that ebooks can be any length, and they could sell individual short stories.)

The main problem with interactive (click here to buy) ads is that not all devices support them, and if you only allow the books to be sold to people with a limited range of devices, you're severely hampering your market. Maybe something could be worked out with Amazon, because the Kindle's the only device that has enough support--but there's still the problem of "this feature only works if the person has wifi turned on at the moment."

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Elfwreck, are you sure that the manufacturer has any say? Raymond Chandler routinely had his wealthy characters driving Packards. I doubt that Packard had any say in the matter.

Times change, and maybe you are right, but that is news to me.

To mention it in the book, there's no permission necessary. It may require a statement that "use of Packards in this book, a trademarked logo, is not authorized by the company." To use it to advertise, with a subsidy from the production company, they'll want the right to veto uses they think are derogatory.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Free *books*, with the nuisances you mention, would be popular. The question is whether the products would sell enough for advertisers to subsidize those books.

Offhand, I'd bet No.

Google ads work because millions of people see those ads; if a tiny fraction clicks on them, they're successful. A bestseller ebook gets, what, 20,000 viewers? Reading on different devices, some of which have no connectivity, many of whom won't be interested in the particular thing being advertised. If the bestseller, normally $15, is going to be *free*, that's a lot of sales to generate from a very tiny pool of viewers, compared to google or tv shows.

Correct. Advertising is all about Cost Per Thousand views. Google does quite well because the costs are low and Google's search algorithms try to tie the ad to what you're reading at the moment, so there is some level of targeting the desired market with ads relevant to them.

I could easily turn off the text ads in GMail. I don't because they're non-intrusive, relevant more often than not, and sometimes merely whimsical.

Has all the same nuisance problems, plus the fact that short stories get fewer sales. (The big publishers haven't yet figured out that ebooks can be any length, and they could sell individual short stories.)

Oh, they're likely aware of it. But they won't because they couldn't make enough money to justify doing it. Publishers issue short stories as part of collections if at all, and the author has to be established as a novelist before a short fiction collection is likely to be issued.
______
Dennis