Female lead characters

[Catlady]

Hasn't this discussion become overly tilted to SF/fantasy? Some of us don't read those books at all, ever.

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What on earth does "responding in a womanly way" even mean?

Behaving in a way that is logical for a woman to react in the universe that the author created. Seems obvious to me.

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Hasn't this discussion become overly tilted to SF/fantasy? Some of us don't read those books at all, ever.

Possibly, but I use SF as an extreme example. In all fiction, it boils down to how believable the character is. But the author creates a Universe in which his/her story exists, regardless of the story type. The characters have to behave in a manner consistent with that universe in order for them to be believable.

[Amiieey]

Gender roles are silly and in reality, that line of thinking should be avoided. It leads to silly things like toxic masculinity and gender stereotypes. Women and men don't have to act a certain way in stories. They can act any way they like so long as the story is believable and good.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by meeera

Women aren't an opaque, mysterious separate species; we're just people.

Drat! Why'd you have to wait till I was 77 to tell me!

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I don't have a preference, but I think there is a trend to "kick ass" female leading characters in 'space Opera' SF right now. But I really dislike where the character is just a guy in drag and with a feminine name.

I want to see the character trying to reconcile her 'kick ass' heroics with the day to day realities of being a woman and responding in a womanly way. The character doesn't have to be a traditional female, but the universe the author creates has to allow room for her to logically exist as a woman. I give points if the author tries, plus extra points for being believable.

There was a time when I was younger that I enjoyed occasional stories about macho guys. Shell Scott and Mike Hammer novels, for example. In those days there weren't many stories about macho women although a few later ones such as Kinsey Milhone were fun to read. But the really masculine women's stories such as Jessica Jones are kind of boring to me. These days that's true of the really macho men stories as well.

I still do occasionally enjoy one of the older ones I liked when I was younger but even those get old fast nowadays.

Lately I've been reading an occasional comic book on my tablet and it's hard to find comics about people who lack super powers or act like they do.

Barry

[GeoffR]

I don't (consciously) consider the sex of the main character when choosing which books to read, but when I think of the characters I have liked best they are almost all male.

I'm not really sure how much of that bias is mine, or the author's, or the genre's. I read mainly science fiction, fantasy, and crime fiction, and I like books from the '70s - '90s more than newer books.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Amiieey

Gender roles are silly and in reality, that line of thinking should be avoided. It leads to silly things like toxic masculinity and gender stereotypes. Women and men don't have to act a certain way in stories. They can act any way they like so long as the story is believable and good.

While men and women have a lot in common there are also a lot of differences. Whether these are inherent or cultural doesn't really matter a lot. The differences do exist and it's entirely valid, as I see it, for writers to reflect that.

Or not! As long as women have the babies I'm okay with it.

Barry

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by barryem

While men and women have a lot in common there are also a lot of differences. Whether these are inherent or cultural doesn't really matter a lot. The differences do exist and it's entirely valid, as I see it, for writers to reflect that.

Or not! As long as women have the babies I'm okay with it.

Barry

Physical not withstanding, there aren't many differences. It depends on the person.

[ebusinesstutor]

I am a male and I love books with strong woman characters. Fortunately, there are many in my favorite genre, science fiction.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What on earth does "responding in a womanly way" even mean?

I take it that you don't usually live with, work with, argue with, fight with or associate with women very much.

[frahse]

[

Originally Posted by meeera View Post
Women aren't an opaque, mysterious separate species; we're just people.

Originally Posted by barryem

Drat! Why'd you have to wait till I was 77 to tell me!

Barry

Don't believe that man. Next she might say something like "trust me, I come in peace." (just like that Alien did in the movie)

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by barryem

There was a time when I was younger that I enjoyed occasional stories about macho guys. Shell Scott and Mike Hammer novels, for example. In those days there weren't many stories about macho women although a few later ones such as Kinsey Milhone were fun to read. But the really masculine women's stories such as Jessica Jones are kind of boring to me.

Barry

It's a bit funny, because while I generally dislike macho women as protagonists, Jessica Jones is one of the few I actually liked. The reason is that they did not attempt to make her a Mary Sue (another pet peeve of mine). She was kick-ass, but so messed up and dysfunctional at the same time. She was interesting to watch.

What especially grates on me is the protagonists (male or female) who have the best characteristics of both men and women heaped on them in abundance and few or no faults. Who are intelligent, self-confident, courageous, kick-ass, gentle, caring, compassionate, good with kids etc. etc.... all at the same time. That's boring as hell. Unfortunately there are a lot more female characters suffering from this than there are males.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

I was translating that whole paragraph as 'I get upset when characters don't conform to my unconscious biases and demand that reading material conforms to what I expect'. Which is a perfectly reasonable thing to want in entertainment, if a little nonsensical for the sff genre.

But then their followup reply doesn't make sense. So your guess is as good as mine.

Oh thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one that picked up on that!

Thank God, reading is such an individualist activity!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by frahse

I take it that you don't usually live with, work with, argue with, fight with or associate with women very much.

You take it wrong (except for "fight" -- I don't fight with anyone very much).