Female lead characters

[issybird]

I don't have to like or identify with characters to like a book (Humbert Humbert, anyone?), but I care if author gets it right, including characters of the opposite sex. I read two excellent books by men recently which are cases in point. Wish Her Safe at Home is told in the first person by a female character and I thought Stephen Benatar got her perfectly. Trollope's Phineas Finn has a male protagonist and several important male characters, but it's his women who are by far the most interesting; the men overall are two-dimensional in character.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That's the one thing I absolutely dislike, the kick-ass female leads. I've got nothing against them in principle, but I don't want to read about them myself.

So only men can be kick-ass? That sounds rather sexist.

[JSWolf]

I don't care if the lead is male or female as long as the lead character is written well enough.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I don't have a preference, but I think there is a trend to "kick ass" female leading characters in 'space Opera' SF right now. But I really dislike where the character is just a guy in drag and with a feminine name.

I want to see the character trying to reconcile her 'kick ass' heroics with the day to day realities of being a woman and responding in a womanly way. The character doesn't have to be a traditional female, but the universe the author creates has to allow room for her to logically exist as a woman. I give points if the author tries, plus extra points for being believable.

The definition of femininity varies widely across human societies. There is no such thing as one true way to be a woman or a single womanly way to respond to events. That goes doubly when the woman in question is a dimensional traveler or flying lizard person from a matriarchal hive society.

Also - the whole point of fantasy and science fiction is to imagine other societies and other ways for people and the world to be.

To get back on topic, I've found myself reading more and more female authors because I find they generally do a better job of characters in general. This has meant that I wind up reading more books with female leads.

I do somewhat prefer female leads just because so many books tend to get written with the default male protagonist and that gets boring, but so long as the main character(s) are written well I don't mind all that much.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

I've found myself reading more and more female authors because I find they generally do a better job of characters in general. This has meant that I wind up reading more books with female leads.

Then your reading must be very limited indeed. The focus should be on the book, not on the race or sex or other characteristics of the author. I very much doubt you would be able to pick which authors are male or which female in a suitable blind test, and certainly not by the quality of their characters. The whole James Tiptree/Alice Sheldon saga is most instructive in this regard.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by darryl

Then your reading must be very limited indeed. The focus should be on the book, not on the race or sex or other characteristics of the author. I very much doubt you would be able to pick which authors are male or which female in a suitable blind test, and certainly not by the quality of their characters. The whole James Tiptree/Alice Sheldon saga is most instructive in this regard.

Well, you apparently can't parse sentences correctly so I doubt I'm going to take reading suggestions from you.

I literally said 'I've found myself reading more female authors because they write characters better'. You responded with 'You should focus on finding authors who write well!!!!' Do you see why what you said was completely offbase?

[kyteflyer]

I have no gender bias where lead characters are concerned, but they must be well rounded and well written. There's nothing worse than a character with.. well... no character. Except, perhaps, a character written as one but seeming to be the other (as in Artemis).

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

...But I really dislike where the character is just a guy in drag and with a feminine name.

So I guess you won't be reading Ed Wood's Killer In Drag or Death of a Transvestite?

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

The definition of femininity varies widely across human societies. There is no such thing as one true way to be a woman or a single womanly way to respond to events. That goes doubly when the woman in question is a dimensional traveler or flying lizard person from a matriarchal hive society.

Also - the whole point of fantasy and science fiction is to imagine other societies and other ways for people and the world to be.

My point exactly.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So only men can be kick-ass? That sounds rather sexist.

No. I said that I don't have anything against kick-ass females in principle. I just don't like to read fiction where they are protagonists. It's a personal preference. I've never even thought they should not exist.

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So I guess you won't be reading Ed Wood's Killer In Drag or Death of a Transvestite?

LOL! No, but the main point is that the author needs to create a believable 'universe' in which the protagonist can exist.

[DiapDealer]

What on earth does "responding in a womanly way" even mean?

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

Well, you apparently can't parse sentences correctly so I doubt I'm going to take reading suggestions from you.

I literally said 'I've found myself reading more female authors because they write characters better'. You responded with 'You should focus on finding authors who write well!!!!' Do you see why what you said was completely offbase?

No. What I see is you making an observation about your reading habits, then assigning a totally spurious reason for it. Female authors as a group do not write characters better or worse than male authors. Writing characters well is not dependant on sex, but on writing skills. This being the case, your observation is either incorrect or true of the books you read.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by darryl

No. What I see is you making an observation about your reading habits, then assigning a totally spurious reason for it. Female authors as a group do not write characters better or worse than male authors. Writing characters well is not dependant on sex, but on writing skills. This being the case, your observation is either incorrect or true of the books you read.

I'm reporting a correlation I've observed, and you keep getting upset about it.

I don't know what your damage is, but chill out a bit. My reading habits aren't threatening you or doing whatever it is you think they're doing that's setting your back up.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What on earth does "responding in a womanly way" even mean?

I was translating that whole paragraph as 'I get upset when characters don't conform to my unconscious biases and demand that reading material conforms to what I expect'. Which is a perfectly reasonable thing to want in entertainment, if a little nonsensical for the sff genre.

But then their followup reply doesn't make sense. So your guess is as good as mine.