Watchdog talks about Amazon closing accounts - Page 3

JSWolf · 10-23-2015, 03:17 PM

The issue here is that Amazon is wrong in one major respect. Amazon says it is OK to return things yet they don't lay it out properly. They don't say how many returns are too many. I do feel that defective returns should not count against even if the item is not replaced.

HarryT · 10-23-2015, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The issue here is that Amazon is wrong in one major respect. Amazon says it is OK to return things yet they don't lay it out properly. They don't say how many returns are too many.

It would be a really bad idea for them to specify a figure. The inevitable result of that would be people gaming the system.

Quote:

I do feel that defective returns should not count against even if the item is not replaced.

I agree.

Blossom · 10-23-2015, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The issue here is that Amazon is wrong in one major respect. Amazon says it is OK to return things yet they don't lay it out properly. They don't say how many returns are too many. I do feel that defective returns should not count against even if the item is not replaced.

If they were too do that then scammers could take advantage of it. I have seen on freebies forums many people scamming Amazon for free stuff by having multiple accounts and other methods. Amazon has to protect themselves to stay in business as a leader. There are alot of dishonest people out there.

JoHunt · 10-23-2015, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do feel that defective returns should not count against even if the item is not replaced.

I doubt that Amazon is going to test every return to determine if it really is defective if such is claimed by the purchaser (with the possible exception of their own products). If these are not counted, people gaming the system will claim that an item is defective just so it won't count.

HarryT · 10-23-2015, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHunt

I doubt that Amazon is going to test every return to see if it really is defective if such is claimed by the purchaser (with the possible exception of their own products). If these are not counted, people gaming the system will claim that an item is defective just so it won't count.

A very good point.

Rizla · 10-23-2015, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As far as ebooks go, if people aren't automatically downloading and backing them up on the computers, then that is their own fault.

The vast majority of Kindle users have never heard of Calibre, never mind DRM-removal, which may well be illegal to use in their country. So I don't agree with your statement.

AnemicOak · 10-23-2015, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As far as ebooks go, if people aren't automatically downloading and backing them up on the computers, then that is their own fault. By now everyone that buys ebooks should know that stores can go away at anytime and that access to your books in NOT guaranteed.

If by everyone you mean people who are enthusiasts that spend lots of time on forums like this then I suppose they "should know", but the majority of digital content buyers aren't hanging out on MR or KBoards or wherever. They're sold on how easy it is to get and access their content and that it'll be there for their use whenever they like.

The one constant I've seen on these return/account closure issues is that when people get "the letter" is that Amazon basically refuses to have any meaningful communication on the subject with the account holder. For people used to Amazon's, generally, very good customer service this comes as a shock to them and they reasonably expect better discourse from Amazon then a form letter and refusal to discuss things.

issybird · 10-23-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHunt

I doubt that Amazon is going to test every return to determine if it really is defective if such is claimed by the purchaser (with the possible exception of their own products). If these are not counted, people gaming the system will claim that an item is defective just so it won't count.

...or make sure it's defective before they return it.

Blossom · 10-23-2015, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

The one constant I've seen on these return/account closure issues is that when people get "the letter" is that Amazon basically refuses to have any meaningful communication on the subject with the account holder. For people used to Amazon's, generally, very good customer service this comes as a shock to them and they reasonably expect better discourse from Amazon then a form letter and refusal to discuss things.

Very good point Brian. The Account Specialists department can only be reached by email and will only give brief general replies. We are not use to Amazon's customer support being this way. In this case your only hope is contacting Jeff Bezos' office and wait.

JSWolf · 10-23-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

A very good point.

The problem then becomes when you do return a defective item and not get a replacement, then you get screwed. Not fair and not a good idea to not count defective items not replaced. If you are at the limit and you get a defective item you want to return, you return it and because you don't request a replacement, your account gets closed. That is unfair and very wrong.

issybird · 10-23-2015, 04:52 PM

Some people will be outliers (or just really unlucky), but very, very few. I can't imagine that almost anyone who makes the odd return, even if they don't replace a defective item, has anything to worry about.

For me, the real question is, why do some people get warning letters? While some go straight to account closure? Because if you could count on a warning letter, then there's nothing at all to worry about. Once you get it, just stop ordering risky or questionable items and stop ordering from third party sellers, get your numbers back up, and move on.

My guess, and yes, this is pure speculation, is that straight to closure types are those who return high-ticket items or cases where Amazon suspects outright fraud. The warning letters are for the fiddly stuff.

pwalker8 · 10-23-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

Some people will be outliers (or just really unlucky), but very, very few. I can't imagine that almost anyone who makes the odd return, even if they don't replace a defective item, has anything to worry about.

For me, the real question is, why do some people get warning letters? While some go straight to account closure? Because if you could count on a warning letter, then there's nothing at all to worry about. Once you get it, just stop ordering risky or questionable items and stop ordering from third party sellers, get your numbers back up, and move on.

My guess, and yes, this is pure speculation, is that straight to closure types are those who return high-ticket items or cases where Amazon suspects outright fraud. The warning letters are for the fiddly stuff.

Just as a wild guess, Amazon has some algorithm that they use to spot people who game the system. Like most algorithms it has a percentage of false positives.

ProfCrash · 10-23-2015, 06:09 PM

The merchants is what I have noticed.

I don't really blame the individual very easily. I have had some pretty poorly shipped items. The outer boxes have been ripped and dented. Luckily the product itself wasn't damaged. Just because I have not had many issues doesn't mean others have not. There are folks who use subscribe and save for food staples and have ended up with busted cans and broken bottles.

But I do avoid the merchants.

theducks · 10-24-2015, 12:41 PM

I have done a few Amazon returns over the years.

In the case of defective, Amazon replaces or will also refund the shipping charge

Amazon does not refund shipping for a 'restock' return. (They also DO NOT charge restocking fee that many others do. In my state, returns can not be resold as 'New', which usually means a price hit.)

In one case, I returned a cordless tool charger because it would not accept my size of battery. They refused to refund/credit the shipping because I had ordered the wrong item... That was, Until I posted a review that pointed out that the product description incorrectly stated that it did 9.6V batteries (it did not). I got the Credit, the description was corrected and I did get (not for free

) the model that did charge my old style NiCd tool batteries.

I've worked Retail. There are a few customers that abuse return policy, or Scam the system. A number of major Retail stores have tightened their return policy because of a few.

pdurrant · 10-24-2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

For me, the real question is, why do some people get warning letters? While some go straight to account closure?

I suspect that the warning letters almost always go out, but in some cases will just be ignored, or might get spam-trapped.

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10-23-2015, 03:17 PM	#31
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,756 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The issue here is that Amazon is wrong in one major respect. Amazon says it is OK to return things yet they don't lay it out properly. They don't say how many returns are too many. I do feel that defective returns should not count against even if the item is not replaced.

10-23-2015, 04:52 PM	#41
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 21,294 Karma: 234636059 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: Mini, H2O, Glo HD, Aura One, PW4, PW5	Some people will be outliers (or just really unlucky), but very, very few. I can't imagine that almost anyone who makes the odd return, even if they don't replace a defective item, has anything to worry about. For me, the real question is, why do some people get warning letters? While some go straight to account closure? Because if you could count on a warning letter, then there's nothing at all to worry about. Once you get it, just stop ordering risky or questionable items and stop ordering from third party sellers, get your numbers back up, and move on. My guess, and yes, this is pure speculation, is that straight to closure types are those who return high-ticket items or cases where Amazon suspects outright fraud. The warning letters are for the fiddly stuff.

10-23-2015, 06:09 PM	#43
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	The merchants is what I have noticed. I don't really blame the individual very easily. I have had some pretty poorly shipped items. The outer boxes have been ripped and dented. Luckily the product itself wasn't damaged. Just because I have not had many issues doesn't mean others have not. There are folks who use subscribe and save for food staples and have ended up with busted cans and broken bottles. But I do avoid the merchants.

10-24-2015, 12:41 PM	#44
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 31,057 Karma: 60358908 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	I have done a few Amazon returns over the years. In the case of defective, Amazon replaces or will also refund the shipping charge Amazon does not refund shipping for a 'restock' return. (They also DO NOT charge restocking fee that many others do. In my state, returns can not be resold as 'New', which usually means a price hit.) In one case, I returned a cordless tool charger because it would not accept my size of battery. They refused to refund/credit the shipping because I had ordered the wrong item... That was, Until I posted a review that pointed out that the product description incorrectly stated that it did 9.6V batteries (it did not). I got the Credit, the description was corrected and I did get (not for free ) the model that did charge my old style NiCd tool batteries. I've worked Retail. There are a few customers that abuse return policy, or Scam the system. A number of major Retail stores have tightened their return policy because of a few.

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