Trans-Pacific Partnership to Increase Copyright Term in Six Nations

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

THE US IS NOT A LIFE + 70 COUNTRY!!!!!

As I wrote, it is oversimplified to say that the US is Life + 70. But Life + 70 is part of the current US formula, primarily for newer works:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf

The law automatically protects a work that is created and fixed in a tangible medium of expression on or after January 1, 1978, from the moment of its creation and gives it a term lasting for the author’s life plus an additional 70 years.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

[THE US IS A FIXED COPYRIGHT, CONTINUALLY EXTENDED, COUNTRY!!!

The failure of Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) showed that copyright holders no longer control the US Congress. I'm not going to say it in all caps, but, in my opinion, copyright extension is no longer politically possible in the United States. So we are going to have a public domain day on January 1, 2019.

Is it politically possible for the United States to extend copyright in Canada, New Zealand, and Japan? Now, that, in the form of TPP ratification, seems more in the realm of possibility to me. But, even if TPP is ratified, I don't think the TPP minimum copyright term will be continually extended.

Of course, the copyright extension isn't the main reason the US Congress may vote down the TPP. The reasons for risk of non-ratification are opposition from the same coalition as opposed NAFTA, the whole package of netizen objections, and the US election calendar.

AND IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME TO SEE THIS SLIPPED INTO THE TPP FOR EVERYBODY...

Everybody? As in China, and India, and Africa, and Europe? I guess you didn't mean that, but only the TPP nations. But, for them, did you see it in the Wikileaked final text?

P.S. Looking at several web pages on US copyright length, this one seems clearest to me:

https://copyright.cornell.edu/resour...blicdomain.cfm

[Greg Anos]

I posted a sticky about the US copyright law here on MobileRead years ago (and Canadian law at the time. I included copies of the statutes with the relevant part colored...

You can can say Life + 50, Life + 70, or a lollypop. In the US, it doesn't matter. All Life + X are overridden by existing copyright extension.

Which is currently Copyright plus 95 years.

When the US went (mostly) Berne in 1978, the maximum copyright length, for existing copyrights were extended to 70 years, from 56 years, regardless of Life + 50. The only possible people that could have been affected by the change to Life + 50 would be persons, who had published a work after 1921, and had died before 1925. A very small group indeed...

When that extension was about to expire, Congress was brib---excused me, lobbied to extend it to 95 years (and extend Life+50 to Life+70 as political cover) - which was meaningless as nothing would expire under Life+50 that would be protected by Life +70 because all works were being protected by Copyright +70 years, which was extended to Life +95. There was a slip up and Congress didn't get it put in before the first Copyright + 70 slipped into the Public Domain. (Which is why copyright starts on Jan 1 1923 in the US.

(1978 + 50 = 2028 (Life + 50), what was going to expire that needed to be protected in 1998?)

Because of this Copyright plus X override, there has only been 1 year added to the Public Domain in the US in 40 YEARS!

As example - Zane Grey, the Western writer, died in 1939. In every true Life+70 country, his works (in his lifetime - posthumous is a different matter) went PD in 2010. Except the US, where the ones after 1922 are still under copyright and will be until 2019 when 1923 will roll into the public domain - assuming there is no further extension!

All extensions were lobbied by the MPAA, who also had a heavy hand in TPP negotiations.

Do you seriously think that the people who got 2 straight Copyright extensions didn't leave a back door to protect all their early films? We won't know until we see the text...which is conveniently not available for weeks...

I don't mind people disagreeing with me - BUT GET THE BL**DY FACTS FIRST!

Here's the thread - https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53991

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't like longer copyright terms as an individual, that goes without saying, but when you're talking about international commerce, parity in such things is important.

Harry, thinking about what Ralph Sir Edward wrote, maybe there is a better answer to this than the one I first gave (other than agreeing with you, which might be better yet even though I'm not going to do it).

Here's the answer: TPP does not harmonize copyright terms between the US and previously Life + 50 countries until 71 years after the last author of a book published in 1977 has died. That means no full harmonization until well into the 22nd century. That's so far in the future as to be beyond any TPP objective and virtually meaningless.

Take the example of this 1924 novel which won the a 1925 Pulitzer prize, and which I hope to e-read one day:

So Big by Edna Ferber

Edna Ferber died on April 16, 1968.

In the UK, or another Life + 70 country -- like TPP signatory Singapore -- So Big passes into public domain on January 1, 2039. (NEXT DAY EDIT: On waking, I realize that, because of the rule of the shorter term, I may have been mistaken about Singapore, and the UK, for this title. But I would still be correct for Life + 70 countries without the rule of the shorter term, and for titles with the same release year, and author death year, and first published outside the US. I will have to examine the TPP text for possible rule-of-the-shorter-term implications later and consider any responses to this post.)

But in the US, it passes into public domain at the end of the calendar year 95 years after publication -- midnight on December 31, 2019.* Because Ferber wrote young and lived long, this still-in-print book will remain in copyright for twenty years longer in Life + 70 countries without the rule of the shorter term than in the US.**

How does TPP change this? Not at all, because of this carefully worded Wikileaked sentence identical to language from the 2004 US-Australia Free Trade Agreement:

Each Party shall provide that, where the term of protection of a work (including a photographic work), performance, or phonogram is to be calculated:

(a) on the basis of the life of a natural person, the term shall be not less than the life of the author and 70 years after the author’s death

Note the words I bolded. Because copyright of books published before 1978, is, by US law, not usually calculated on the basis of the life of a person, but rather on length of time after publication, the US - Australia agreement to lengthen copyright only applied to Australia! No harmonization with the US there. TPP has the same disgraceful language which exempts just one country -- the United States.

Want to wait until the official text comes out? That's fine. I predict Wikileaks has it right.
___________________________
* Ralph Sir Edward might say this is just theoretical, since US law will, he thinks, change before our next public domain day. I'm basing this post on the idea that won't happen.

** For most major-publisher authors, whose book was first released between 1923 and 1977, and died shortly after publication, the effect goes the other way -- in those cases, US copyright is longer.

[Greg Anos]

Do we know that this is the only back door? We can't be certain until we read the actual text of the agreement. Everything else is speculation. Informed speculation, perhaps, but still speculation.

Even if this is the only back door, it still leaves the door open for endless copyright extension by the US. I expect a bill rider on some critical piece of legislation in late 2018, (around midnight, on a voice vote).

If you look at Pdurrant's bet thread, I have a 1/2 oz of gold riding on this. . . (And that is only that there will be an <attempt> to extend it, not that it would be successful.)

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Do we know that this is the only back door? We can't be certain until we read the actual text of the agreement. Everything else is speculation. Informed speculation, perhaps, but still speculation.

Even if this is the only back door, it still leaves the door open for endless copyright extension by the US. I expect a bill rider on some critical piece of legislation in late 2018, (around midnight, on a voice vote).

If you look at Pdurrant's bet thread, I have a 1/2 oz of gold riding on this. . . (And that is only that there will be an <attempt> to extend it, not that it would be successful.)

Is that 1/2 oz of gold based on the day of the bet placed or the day the bet is settled?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Is that 1/2 oz of gold based on the day of the bet placed or the day the bet is settled?

Call me crazy, but I'm willing to wager a full ounce of bananas on the day the bet is settled

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Is that 1/2 oz of gold based on the day of the bet placed or the day the bet is settled?

1/2 oz of gold is 1/2 oz of gold. He didn't say 'the value of 1/2 oz of gold'.

See this post.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

What's good for Mickey Mouse is good for America

What's good for Mickey Mouse is good for the entire world.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

1/2 oz of gold is 1/2 oz of gold. He didn't say 'the value of 1/2 oz of gold'.

See this post.

The coins are in hand, awaiting the future.

(And yes, I will pay the postage...)

[Apache]

The value of gold changes constantly. Here is a chart of the last 24 hours. The trick is knowing when to buy and sell.

Apache

[Cinisajoy]

Interesting it is $1184.30 right now in the US.
Up and down is getting to be an understatement.

[Apache]

Right now Platinum is $179.00 an ounce less.
Apache

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Apache

Right now Platinum is $179.00 an ounce less.
Apache

Maybe so, but try to get physical delivery...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Maybe so, but try to get physical delivery...

Nearly any jewelry store will have some platinum.

[Apache]

It isn't hard to buy any precious metal. Owning a jewelry store makes it easier and has advantages. For example, I do not have to pay sales tax when I purchase precious metals. Of course when I sell I have to charge sal3es tax. then I get to give the State of Georgia the sales tax I collect.
Apache