Trans-Pacific Partnership to Increase Copyright Term in Six Nations

[Rizla]

I'm not sure that would affect American users.

[SteveEisenberg]

Harry nicely summarized the way I see one part of this:

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is the way it was done in Australia, when it changed from life+50 to life+70 some years ago. Works that were already in the public domain stayed there; there was simply a 20-year hiatus on any new works entering the public domain.

This morning I noticed that Cory Doctorow has a different interpretation of the New Zealand government TPP summary than I do (part I disagree with bolded):

According to the bulletin, the TPP signatories will have to retroactively extend their copyright terms, giving longer copyrights to works that were created before the agreement was struck, and taking works out of the public domain and putting them back into copyright's restrictions.

Generally speaking, Mr. Doctorow has a stronger command of the English language than I do. However, when the full text comes out in a few weeks, we'll see who is correct regarding the above.

[GeoffR]

Some TPP cartoons from the New Zealand Herald:

Tim Groser-TPP Wrestler (Tim Groser is NZ's Trade Minister.)

The TPPA so Far...

[SteveEisenberg]

Canada Caves on Copyright in TPP: Commits to Longer Term

New Zealand was able to negotiate a delayed implementation of the copyright term provision, with a shorter extension for the first 8 years. It also obtained a clear provision that does not make the change retroactive – anything in the public domain stays there. Malaysia also obtained a delay in the copyright term extension requirement.

Canada, on the other hand, simply caved.

I'm not sure if linking here to Wikileaks is allowed, so I won't do it. But carefully reading the leaked, more or less final, text, my interpretation is not exactly the same as Michael Geist. And it is not exactly the same as the anonymous authors of the official New Zealand summaries. This is making we think that my readings may be wrong. Maybe you really need to be a lawyer to read this this stuff. But, for what is is worth, my reading is that there will be two years (not clear which ones) in which the works of authors who died in those years will go out of the New Zealand public domain. This is my interpretation of New Zealand getting Life + 60 for eight years, then going to Life + 70.

As for Canada's missing transition period, this seems so strange that I wonder if that paragraph didn't get Wikileaked.

I'd like to be for the TPP for reasons that don't have much to do with the subject area of Mobileread. But the negotiators -- especially the US negotiators -- don't seem to have worked at making it easy for someone like me. I don't think they understood how important it was to throw in provisions that would reduce the inevitable netizen opposition. Lowering trade barrriers didn't require messing with copyright terms.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Lowering trade barrriers didn't require messing with copyright terms.

I respectfully disagree, Steve. A free trade agreement has to be based on parity between the parties involved, and parity in copyright length is an important part of that. I don't like longer copyright terms as an individual, that goes without saying, but when you're talking about international commerce, parity in such things is important.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I respectfully disagree, Steve. A free trade agreement has to be based on parity between the parties involved, and parity in copyright length is an important part of that. I don't like longer copyright terms as an individual, that goes without saying, but when you're talking about international commerce, parity in such things is important.

It's certainly a big deal to those who hold copyrights. I'm not so sure that it's really all that necessary though. Contrary to the posturing, only a handful of works actually is worth much for a significant period of time. This is more for the large corporations (cough, cough, Disney) who hold the rights to those works.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It's certainly a big deal to those who hold copyrights. I'm not so sure that it's really all that necessary though. Contrary to the posturing, only a handful of works actually is worth much for a significant period of time. This is more for the large corporations (cough, cough, Disney) who hold the rights to those works.

I just don't see it an a big deal. Most of the world has had a life+70 copyright terms for a long time. This is simply bringing a few "holdouts" into line with that is the international standard copyright term.

It didn't seems to cause any particular issues in Australia when they switched from life+50 to life+70 some years ago.

[John F]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I just don't see it an a big deal. Most of the world has had a life+70 copyright terms for a long time. This is simply bringing a few "holdouts" into line with that is the international standard copyright term.

It didn't seems to cause any particular issues in Australia when they switched from life+50 to life+70 some years ago.

Could you provide the numbers (for what I bolded)? Looking at this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...yright_lengths, I quick/rough count came up with:

Life +50: 120
Life +70: 70

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by John F

Could you provide the numbers (for what I bolded)? Looking at this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...yright_lengths, I quick/rough count came up with:

Life +50: 120
Life +70: 70

You're correct if you just look at number of countries, but if you look at it in terms of the publishing industry, the biggest markets in the western world (the EU, US, etc.) mostly do have life+70 terms. If you're going to promote international trade, which is my understanding of the purpose of the TPP, you really need to standardise on "legal" stuff like copyright terms.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It didn't seems to cause any particular issues in Australia when they switched from life+50 to life+70 some years ago.

Of course, it didn't bring down the government, or anything like that, but:

http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-...es_feb2004.pdf

"The outcome is bad for libraries," said Colette Ormonde, copyright adviser for the Australian Library and Information Association. "It is bad for students. It is bad for researchers. It is bad for all information users." . . .

Project Gutenberg Australia, an online repository of public domain works, was likely to be among the first to suffer.

Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile, in my last link, makes clear this was something forced on Australia, by the United States, in order to get other things it wanted more. I fail to see how Americans, or Australians benefited. Are Americans now buying more Australian eBooks (written by authors who died between 1956 and 1964, the years affected to date), or visa versa?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I fail to see how Americans benefited.

What's good for Mickey Mouse is good for America

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

What's good for Mickey Mouse is good for America

What's good for Mickey is good for the World!

I've long held that there should be a two tier copyright system, one for the Disney/LOTR/Harry Potter type works, i.e. works that are worth megamillions and one for everyone else. To me, that seems the fairest resolution that achieves the actual purpose of the copyright laws, i.e. to allow artists to make money and to make those works of art widely available to the public.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

What's good for Mickey Mouse is good for America

My serious answer to this:

There are lots of good Disney jobs. If collecting royalties on Snow White (1937) helps keep them, I'm fine with it. Also, I'm fine with Life + 50. And I consider a director to be analogous to an author. If the standard were Life + 50 for the directors, Snow White stays under copyright until 2039.

But there aren't lots of jobs in making books published in the 1940's and 1950's into proofread eBooks. Here a Pultizer-prize-winning example my wife and I loved reading in paper, still not a corrected eBook:

http://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Land...awakening+land

Life + 50 - Distributed Proofreading Canada gets it in 2019
Life + 70 - Distributed Proofreading Canada gets it in 2039

Life + 50, and it's likely I can re-read as an eBook. Life + 70, questionable I'll make it that long.

Yes this is a selfish argument.

You could say that Americans shouldn't care because copyright length is already (in many cases; I am going to oversimplify) Life + 70 here. Downloading when visiting Canada is admittedly taking advantage of a loophole.

Here's one American argument against TPP even if you don't go to Canada: Now, Life + 70 is a US law that can be changed. When TPP is ratified, it's becomes much harder to change international law.

[Greg Anos]

The US is not a life + 70 country....

Tattoo it on your genitalia with a dull needle...

THE US IS NOT A LIFE + 70 COUNTRY!!!!!

The US only has life +70 for show. Nothing is affected by it. There is no PD day on the US.

THE US IS A FIXED COPYRIGHT, CONTINUALLY EXTENDED, COUNTRY!!!

IT CURRENTLY IS 95 YEARS. NOTHING WILL GO INTO THE PD UNTIL 2019, UNLESS IT IS EXTENDED AGAIN!

IF YOU THINK THE MOUSE HOUSE GAVE THIS UP FOR THE TTP, I HAVE A BRIDGE TO SELL YOU!!!!!

AND IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME TO SEE THIS SLIPPED INTO THE TPP FOR EVERYBODY...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The US is not a life + 70 country....

Tattoo it on your genitalia with a dull needle...

THE US IS NOT A LIFE + 70 COUNTRY!!!!!

The US only has life +70 for show. Nothing is affected by it. There is no PD day on the US.

THE US IS A FIXED COPYRIGHT, CONTINUALLY EXTENDED, COUNTRY!!!

IT CURRENTLY IS 95 YEARS. NOTHING WILL GO INTO THE PD UNTIL 2019, UNLESS IT IS EXTENDED AGAIN!

IF YOU THINK THE MOUSE HOUSE GAVE THIS UP FOR THE TTP, I HAVE A BRIDGE TO SELL YOU!!!!!

AND IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME TO SEE THIS SLIPPED INTO THE TPP FOR EVERYBODY...

Did you say something Ralph? Couldn't hear you for all the big letters.