SATReading scores drop to lowest levels in 40 years

[Gwen Morse]

Originally Posted by crich70

We didn't have that kind of thing where I grew up, but we did have a good reading program through the local public library. You set a goal for yourself for summer time reading and got a nice certificate if you managed to make your goal. I always went over. Might have been other things along with the certificate like a party or something I guess but I really don't remember.

When I was in elementary school and junior high school, I was eligible for a summer reading program at my local library.

We were given a paper sheet with blank circles and we'd get a sticker for each book we checked out at the library and read. I'd run out of circles in the first few weeks, and line up the rest of my stickers on the back of the certificate.

BTW - I love "The Scarlet Letter" and re-read it at least once a year. I can see that other people might not like it though. It's pretty dense.

However, I can't stand Thomas Hardy. It takes all kinds. I do think that it would be nice to have students read recent fiction. Maybe Pulitzer finalists and winners. The idea that the 19th century was the end of "literature" is rather silly. Especially given that a not insignificant amount of writing given the "classic" appellation was actually popular trash for its time.

[bevdeforges]

The purpose of education is not (as they seem to assume sometimes here in France) to stuff little heads full of "facts," but rather to teach kids the basics of learning so that they can then learn how to learn, how to problem solve and how to critique and question the sources of information they encounter. Things aren't right or wrong just because they appear in print, or on the Internet or on television. It's the ability to analyze and critically evaluate what you're told or what you read or see that seems to be missing these days - and unfortunately that's a whole bunch harder to evaluate by means of a standardized test.

You read a few classics, even those you don't like, so you have a basis of comparison to new, more modern books you run across. I hated reading The Scarlet Letter, but I appreciate the social and political issues it illustrated. How many books and broadcasters today are just "preaching to the choir" without any concern for the point of view of the other side? How "ballsy" was it of Hawthorne to present things from the point of view of an "adulteress" or the preacher who knocked her up?

No, electronic devices aren't the problem per se. I'm not the only person here to have stated that I don't want an eReader that is always connected (to the Internet or anywhere else) because I want to be able to concentrate on my reading, to think about it and NOT to be interrupted with incoming e-mail or diversions to Wikipedia to look up something I didn't entirely understand. There is plenty of garbage out there in print and online, and I like to think that I can evaluate the information I find - but evaluating what you see and read takes time and some experience and some in depth reflection. That should be what the reading section of the SAT tries to get at - and if that's the case, the falling reading scores don't particularly surprise me.

[carpetmojo]

For goodness sake, they're talking about what a good idea it would be to test our lot at 6 or before now.

It's called "let's not trust the teachers - again..."

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

For goodness sake, they're talking about what a good idea it would be to test our lot at 6 or before now.

It's called "let's not trust the teachers - again..."

Well, there are significant problems with the U.S. education system. I'm not saying these tests are the answer, in fact they probably hurt more than help, but we need to as a nation put a major effort into overhauling our education system so that it produces educated, informed and literate citizens.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Reading a long book that you were assigned that you don't want to read is called self-discipline. We seem to have lost it in recent generations.

Well, we had compulsory reading program at school and I hated it with a passion. Mind you, I was bringing in cartloads of books from library every Friday since I was 8. At one moment during my high school studies I was an active member in 8 separate libraries.

Yet, I couldn't stand those compulsory books. Some of those (especially from our national writers) weren't even well written. Even our Literature teacher admitted so much. "But, you know, it is very important book, because it is the first book in our language to depict the struggle of our working class against capitalism."
I do not get it. Why force undigestable books down our collective throats, when there are SO many great books that would help to ignite the spark of love for reading. That would be much more valuable IMHO than leaving huge portion of pupils disgusted with reading.

To this day I hate Literature. I very much prefer a good book.(*)

Recently I have been suckered to read a book by Pulitzer Price Winner Cormac McCarthy - the road. Now I am in urgent need of some mind bleach. The book was ugly, *ugly*, UGLYYYYYYYYYYYY! not to say anything about style, plausibility(**), punctuation, monotonous dialogue, ... everything, really. If it was written by some unknown or even mid-list-author, it would get thrown out by vast majority of publishers.

I have vowed to keep away from Pulitzer Price winners and other Great Works of Literature and stick to less great SciFi, mysteries, adventures, paranormal fiction, ... anything really that would be frowned upon by my Literature teacher ;-)

(*)

Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

“In theory it was, around now, Literature. Susan hated Literature. She'd much prefer to read a good book.”

(**) I can put up with a lot of unplausible facts in a well written book (like existence of werewolves, or time travel, or faster-than-light travel, or alternative history, or ...), but the fact inside a book have to be *consistent*. They must fit together nicely. The facts mustn't contradict one another, or go against laws of nature without the author explaining how or why.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kacir

...

Recently I have been suckered to read a book by Pulitzer Price Winner Cormac McCarthy - the road. Now I am in urgent need of some mind bleach. The book was ugly, *ugly*, UGLYYYYYYYYYYYY! not to say anything about style, plausibility(**), punctuation, monotonous dialogue, ... everything, really. ....

You are wrong.

It's one of the best books ever written. Definitely in my top 10.

It does seems to be a book which polarizes readers though:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...omment_instant

[kacir]

Originally Posted by kennyc

You are wrong.

OK. Let's agree that we disagree ;-)

Originally Posted by kennyc

It's one of the best books ever written. Definitely in my top 10.

The question is, would you make it compulsory reading for 15 years old kids?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kacir

OK. Let's agree that we disagree ;-)
The question is, would you make it compulsory reading for 15 years old kids?

That is totally irrelevant to whether it is a great book or not.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by crich70

Yes but didn't she finish her own education by age 16 or so? Then after some time go on to teach? Our knowledge has grown a lot in the past century. No doubt not everyone has been able to keep up with all the new developments. I mean round the turn of the last century few people understood Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" for example and now many have at least an idea of what it's about even if they don't always understand the math behind it. Sometimes I think knowledge expands faster than our ability to process it. And everyone still has to start with the basics before they go on to the more advanced stuff. Do the basics even get the time they need to be taught anymore?

Well, I meant it largely as sarcasm. A major issue to her that comes out in the books is that most children didn't finish schooling at all -- the boys were needed to work the farms and the girls to work around the house, so after a few grades, the kids just stopped showing up at school and there wasn't much the teacher could do about it.

Kids staying in school from pre-school to their senior year is actually a pretty new thing for America. So this OMG KIDS HAVE NO SELF CONTROL meme is pretty....divorced from historical analysis. IMHO.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That is totally irrelevant to whether it is a great book or not.

Yes, it is.

And I agree that high number of people find the book great. The fact that I personally [and quite a few other people] strongly dislike the book, doesn't mean it can't be considered great by other people.

But this thread is about SAT Reading scores and about the books that kids and young students are required/recommended [by school] to read.
I was trying to steer discussion back on topic, not to attack your tastes.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kacir

Yes, it is.

And I agree that high number of people find the book great. The fact that I personally [and quite a few other people] strongly dislike the book, doesn't mean it can't be considered great by other people.

But this thread is about SAT Reading scores and about the books that kids and young students are required/recommended [by school] to read.
I was trying to steer discussion back on topic, not to attack your tastes.

Yes, that is what the thread is about, I started it, you are the one that brought up the scathing remark about The Road. It merited responding to.

[anamardoll]

I thought the movie was crap, for what it's worth.

I felt the same way about it as I did "Blindness", that is, if you have to box your characters into an incredibly artificial situation to get the behavior you want, it's possible that your novel doesn't say as much about "human nature" as you seem to think it does. But that's my two cents, and the book is on my reading list. I'll give it another go.

Topic? There was a topic around here?

[stickybuns]

deleted for crappy formatting

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stickybuns

deleted for crappy formatting

Dangitall!

[stickybuns]

LOL! Just wanted to reply to a previous poster who was using John Stossel as a source. Stossel has a bit of a reputation for being less than truthful or demonstrating bias in general:

http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/john_stossel

And towards educational matters specifically:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200601200003


He might be absolutely correct in this particular instance, but since I wouldn't trust him farther than I can throw him, I'd like to see his claims confirmed by another source.