Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

I think "herd immunity" is a misnomer. From my limited understanding, this "vaccine" is more like a flu shot than an actual vaccine. I don't think true herd immunity is going to be accomplished.way.

A flu shot is an "actual vaccine". And influenza herd immunity is achievable, if there wasn't so much hesitancy. This is long-time established science.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by meeera

A flu shot is an "actual vaccine". And influenza herd immunity is achievable, if there wasn't so much hesitancy. This is long-time established science.

It's certainly true that influenza deaths could be mostly prevented by widespread use of vaccines. Or my taking care not to spread it. Look at the astonishing reduction in influenza cases in the 2020/2021 season.

One benefit from the pandemic has been that new vaccine technologies have been proved to work in the real world. These might lead to faster development of influenza vaccines, which should mean that they work more effectively. Currently flu vaccine makers have to guess which strains will be circulating about six months before the vaccine is needed.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

One benefit from the pandemic has been that new vaccine technologies have been proved to work in the real world. These might lead to faster development of influenza vaccines, which should mean that they work more effectively.

Definitely! They've been working on it for a while...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...4410X19305626#!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...25001620301994

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

You probably already tried this for the mask fogging issue, and I know everyone's facial structure and eyeglass frames are different so what works for me may not work for you, but just in case - what helps for me is to have the top of the mask pulled up under the bottom of my glasses frame. The glasses keep the top of the mask pressed against my face so there's less space for air to come out and create a fog.

I've tried that, but it shifts my glasses too far up, which means I can't see correctly. My vision is very poor, and my progressive lenses very strong. Once in a while I'd hit the sweet spot and get it all arranged well. But 99% of the time, I rushed to finish because of the fog. Cloth, paper, different shapes, wires, no wires, gah. It was very frustrating.

Not being able to see correctly triggers a "flight" response in me, which wasn't fun to deal with either. I think it's a hold over from being young, being at the swimming pool with family, and not being able to find anyone because I couldn't see well enough to recognize anyone who was further away from me than 6 feet.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

Wow, that does sound like a craphole to live in. I was not aware that the governments of where you two live (Australia and Canada I think) were that oppressive. I can see why you might be bitter now. But remember, I am not the cause of what your government is doing to you.

It's not just Canada and Australia. It's pretty much any country with universal healthcare.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

It's not just Canada and Australia. It's pretty much any country with universal healthcare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_charge_rule

[poohbear_nc]

What I'm finding disturbing - in NC (not sure if this is true in other states/countries) - our daily/weekly covid stats have dropped markedly - for new infections, positive tests, hospitalizations, ER admissions, etc. - EXCEPT for daily deaths. NC has now surpassed 13,000 covid-related deaths and has maintained a steady daily death rate of 20-30 per day for months.

NC reports 48% adults fully vaccinated, and 53% adults with at least 1 dose.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

What I'm finding disturbing - in NC (not sure if this is true in other states/countries) - our daily/weekly covid stats have dropped markedly - for new infections, positive tests, hospitalizations, ER admissions, etc. - EXCEPT for daily deaths. NC has now surpassed 13,000 covid-related deaths and has maintained a steady daily death rate of 20-30 per day for months.

NC reports 48% adults fully vaccinated, and 53% adults with at least 1 dose.

When was the marked drop in new cases? Deaths will lag that by a period of some weeks.

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by meeera

When was the marked drop in new cases? Deaths will lag that by a period of some weeks.

New cases have been declining steadily for about 3 months, with the sharpest declines beginning in April.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

What I'm finding disturbing - in NC (not sure if this is true in other states/countries) - our daily/weekly covid stats have dropped markedly - for new infections, positive tests, hospitalizations, ER admissions, etc. - EXCEPT for daily deaths. NC has now surpassed 13,000 covid-related deaths and has maintained a steady daily death rate of 20-30 per day for months.

NC reports 48% adults fully vaccinated, and 53% adults with at least 1 dose.

Looking at the charts here: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...orth-carolina/

It looks to me like deaths are tracking cases, delayed by a couple of weeks, as expected. Peak of cases (weekly average) on 12th January, Peak of deaths (weekly average) on 27th January or so - perhaps a bit latter - that second peak's a bit fuzzy.

Cases steadily dropped until about March 14th, deaths until March 20th. Minor cases peak on April 15th, deaths on April 21st. Both decline slowly since then. Although I grant that cases have dropped by over half, and deaths by only 1/3rd.

Still, nothing looks like cases are being significantly undercounted.

[poohbear_nc]

Thanks for the link - it showcases the information much more clearly than anything NC has put online. It does show the persistence of the daily death rate at 20-40 per day. I'll follow these graphs to see if the death rate does diminish over the coming weeks.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It's certainly true that influenza deaths could be mostly prevented by widespread use of vaccines. Or my taking care not to spread it. Look at the astonishing reduction in influenza cases in the 2020/2021 season.

Which may have had very little to do with the wearing of masks.

Masks have only been mandatory in limited settings for short periods in most of Australia, especially in NSW, yet the incidence of Influenza has flatlined. Here's the latest from the NSW weekly infectious disease surveillance report.

FluGraphs.pdf

There have been 7 influenza cases reported in 2021. Investigations into the source of these cases are ongoing, and further confirmatory testing is underway. [That is in a population of 8.1M!! The covid-19 PCR swabs are used to look for other diseases, so testing rates are also high.]

The line goes flat in April 2020 which is when Australia started to quarantine all arrivals. This is what the NSW Chief Health Officer suggests is the primary contributor to flu's demise, high rates of vaccinations being secondary. So far this year flu vaccinations are down on last year, if the flu graph remains the same it will add weight to her argument.

BR

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

EXCEPT for daily deaths. NC has now surpassed 13,000 covid-related deaths and has maintained a steady daily death rate of 20-30 per day for months.

How does NC count covid-19 deaths.

Some countries/states attribute death to covid-19 if it was contracted in a fixed period prior to death - 28 days is widely used.

Others attribute death to covid-19 if the person continues to be treated for the condition(s) that covid-19 triggered (e,g. pneumonia). Example - an elderly man who was infected in March 2020 who died in December 2020 was included in NSW's covid-19 stats because he was still being treated for the conditions the covid-19 infection triggered.

BR

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

How does NC count covid-19 deaths.

Some countries/states attribute death to covid-19 if it was contracted in a fixed period prior to death - 28 days is widely used.

Others attribute death to covid-19 if the person continues to be treated for the condition(s) that covid-19 triggered (e,g. pneumonia). Example - an elderly man who was infected in March 2020 who died in December 2020 was included in NSW's covid-19 stats because he was still being treated for the conditions the covid-19 infection triggered.

BR

Interesting - I'm not sure - will have to do some investigating. The news sources use the phrase "covid related deaths" or "deaths caused by covid." Since each state counts their own mortality rates, I'm guessing there is no uniform standard here, and each state sets their own definition.
I know there was some attempt at finagling with the hospitalization numbers initially, trying to count only new admissions, and dropping patients off the total that had been hospitalized longer than a set time.
*heading off to investigate*

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

How does NC count covid-19 deaths.

Some countries/states attribute death to covid-19 if it was contracted in a fixed period prior to death - 28 days is widely used.

Others attribute death to covid-19 if the person continues to be treated for the condition(s) that covid-19 triggered (e,g. pneumonia). Example - an elderly man who was infected in March 2020 who died in December 2020 was included in NSW's covid-19 stats because he was still being treated for the conditions the covid-19 infection triggered.

BR

To be counted as a covid death, a patient must either have a recorded positive covid test before death, or have "covid 19" on their death certificates. Which would indicate a massive undercount of actual deaths caused by the covid 19 virus, particularly among older patients with pre-existing conditions.

See here