Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

I never said you were dispensable. I never implied you were dispensable. Where do you come up with this dramatic crap?

But apparently it's too much to ask ableds to wear an extra piece of fabric until herd immunity is achieved.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

I never said you were dispensable. I never implied you were dispensable. Where do you come up with this dramatic crap? Every time you spout off this insulting nonsense you move a step lower on the respect ladder.

"You have not convinced me that the unvaccinated affect the vaccinated in any significant way. You have explained your thoughts, yes, but not convinced. In some unusual and very rare circumstances they potentially could. However, for all intents and purposes, they don't."

Followed by lots and lots of comments about how FrEeDoM (freedom for who?) trumps public health, every time.

[Incidentally, when you said "You always have to live with the consequences of others choices if you live in a free country. If you don't like that, move to a non-free country.", were you aware that this is generally in fact not possible for many disabled people, perhaps most?]

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by meeera

[Incidentally, when you said "You always have to live with the consequences of others choices if you live in a free country. If you don't like that, move to a non-free country.", were you aware that this is generally in fact not possible for many disabled people, perhaps most?]

A lot of countries outright ban disabled people from immigrating.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

A lot of countries outright ban disabled people from immigrating.

Yes; mine included. And that's on top of all the other barriers.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by meeera

Followed by lots and lots of comments about how FrEeDoM (freedom for who?) trumps public health, every time.

Honestly, I find it fun to take cerain anti-mask arguments as justification of why it is perfectly fine to strip naked in the middle of a grocery store.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

A lot of countries outright ban disabled people from immigrating.

Wow, that does sound like a craphole to live in. I was not aware that the governments of where you two live (Australia and Canada I think) were that oppressive. I can see why you might be bitter now. But remember, I am not the cause of what your government is doing to you.

If I were going to meet either of you in person, knowing about your problems, I would of course put on a mask. And do whatever else you requested to protect your health. However, that is not the same as wearing a mask 24x7 on the off chance I might unknowingly run across an unannounced disabled person in an unexpected location. Especially after being vaccinated and thus presenting an infinitesimal small risk to anyone in the first place. It is not the former that you appear to be asking for. It is the latter. And I honestly don't think you're going to get much buy-in for full-time mask use forever. Inside the hospitals where you are treated, certainly, that's a good idea. But for the general population out and about doing their daily business, I just don't think that's a realistic expectation.

[4691mls]

Nobody's asking for "full-time mask use forever". Just that people wear one while they're in places like the bank or grocery store until herd immunity is reached.

Wearing a mask for the 15 minutes you might be in a store seems like such a small thing to do for the benefit of society.

[Deskisamess]

I think "herd immunity" is a misnomer. From my limited understanding, this "vaccine" is more like a flu shot than an actual vaccine. I don't think true herd immunity is going to be accomplished.

I wore a mask when shopping for well over a year. Most of that time was spent not being able to see well, because I found no good solution for fogged up glasses, and believe me, I tried many options. For me, this was a huge challenge, especially when combined with other neurological issues I deal with. Not having to wear a mask makes a huge difference in my everyday life.

I just went to the grocery, and spent no time at all close to anyone. I mean think about it, how often are you forced into close contact when doing normal errands? My not wearing a mask didn't put anyone in harms way.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

I think "herd immunity" is a misnomer. From my limited understanding, this "vaccine" is more like a flu shot than an actual vaccine. I don't think true herd immunity is going to be accomplished.

I wore a mask when shopping for well over a year. Most of that time was spent not being able to see well, because I found no good solution for fogged up glasses, and believe me, I tried many options. For me, this was a huge challenge, especially when combined with other neurological issues I deal with. Not having to wear a mask makes a huge difference in my everyday life.

I just went to the grocery, and spent no time at all close to anyone. I mean think about it, how often are you forced into close contact when doing normal errands? My not wearing a mask didn't put anyone in harms way.

Not everyone is as careful as you. I've had people stand too close in a checkout line, for example. And unfortunately, the only way to get those people to wear masks is to require them for everyone.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Nobody's asking for "full-time mask use forever". Just that people wear one while they're in places like the bank or grocery store until herd immunity is reached.

The argument is coming from the disabled (immune-suppressed). And the danger to them is perpetual. It is not just covid. So herd immunity to covid really means nothing. Perpetual danger = perpetual mask wearing.

Grocery stores? Banks? What about restaurants? Libraries? Schools? Churches? Sports venues? Malls? Gyms?

We really are kind of talking about masks everywhere, forever. If we aren't, then there is no logic behind the request. It's not just covid. And it is ANY indoor space.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

I think "herd immunity" is a misnomer. From my limited understanding, this "vaccine" is more like a flu shot than an actual vaccine. I don't think true herd immunity is going to be accomplished.

I wore a mask when shopping for well over a year. Most of that time was spent not being able to see well, because I found no good solution for fogged up glasses, and believe me, I tried many options. For me, this was a huge challenge, especially when combined with other neurological issues I deal with. Not having to wear a mask makes a huge difference in my everyday life.

I just went to the grocery, and spent no time at all close to anyone. I mean think about it, how often are you forced into close contact when doing normal errands? My not wearing a mask didn't put anyone in harms way.

You probably already tried this for the mask fogging issue, and I know everyone's facial structure and eyeglass frames are different so what works for me may not work for you, but just in case - what helps for me is to have the top of the mask pulled up under the bottom of my glasses frame. The glasses keep the top of the mask pressed against my face so there's less space for air to come out and create a fog.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by haertig

The argument is coming from the disabled (immune-suppressed). And the danger to them is perpetual. It is not just covid. So herd immunity to covid really means nothing. Perpetual danger = perpetual mask wearing.

Grocery stores? Banks? What about restaurants? Libraries? Schools? Churches? Sports venues? Malls? Gyms?

We really are kind of talking about masks everywhere, forever. If we aren't, then there is no logic behind the request. It's not just covid. And it is ANY indoor space.

Covid is more prevalent and more contagious than the other diseases the immune suppressed have had to deal with in the past. I mean, there's always been things like chicken pox and measles and flu, but unless there was an epidemic of one of those diseases in a particular town, then the immune suppressed weren't running as big a risk as they are now.

[4691mls]

I'm going to join Astrangerhere in quitting this thread. It's apparent we've reached a stalemate and neither side is going to convince the other.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

You probably already tried this for the mask fogging issue, and I know everyone's facial structure and eyeglass frames are different so what works for me may not work for you, but just in case - what helps for me is to have the top of the mask pulled up under the bottom of my glasses frame. The glasses keep the top of the mask pressed against my face so there's less space for air to come out and create a fog.

I have tried that. It helps a little, but not if you're breathing heavy (like walking up several flights of stairs in my case!)

What works for me, but is dorky as all heck, is to take some of that white bandage tape and actually tape the top of the mask to your face. A bank teller told me about this trick. It works well, but is only really feasible if you wear your mask for long periods of time. It doesn't work for cloth masks (tape doesn't stick well), but then, cloth masks are completely useless against viruses. If you're going to wear a mask, you should be wearing a good quality medical mask - designed to stop germs (as much as possible) - and not a mask designed as a fashion statement.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

Wow, that does sound like a craphole to live in. I was not aware that the governments of where you two live (Australia and Canada I think) were that oppressive. I can see why you might be bitter now. But remember, I am not the cause of what your government is doing to you.

Where do you live? Do you know whether your country welcomes disabled immigrants? A lot of people are very much unaware of these regulations.

Originally Posted by haertig

If I were going to meet either of you in person, knowing about your problems, I would of course put on a mask. And do whatever else you requested to protect your health. However, that is not the same as wearing a mask 24x7 on the off chance I might unknowingly run across an unannounced disabled person in an unexpected location. Especially after being vaccinated

Yet again, this is about UNVACCINATED people presenting a risk to (some) vaccinated people, long before vaccination rates meet good solid herd immunity levels. And it is not about "24/7" nor is it about "forever".