Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-07-2010, 12:14 AM   #16
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLee View Post
I don't see the US dramatically moving it's production to other countries in the short term, but probably sometime in the future for sure. There is currently so much infrastructure in China for manufacturing that it wouldn't make immediate sense. Yes, the electronics prices will go up a bit. The consumers will always absorb the costs. But there is still a long way for China to go before it would make financial sense for US companies to manufacture from elsewhere.
Infrastructure is important, but China's demographics are leading to labor shortages. Its population is aging (average age per capita).
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 08:04 AM   #17
Greg Anos
Grand Sorcerer
Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Greg Anos ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,528
Karma: 37057604
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Pocketbook
The reality is the cheap labor substitution pathway has reached it's end in manufacturing. This is going to cause a wrenching change in corporate profits and behavior.

When the move to China began in the 1980's, the managements saw an endless sea of cheap labor. Now the sea has been used up (so to speak).

The long term result will be a shift from human labor in manufacturing to robot labor. But the shift will be long an painful.
Greg Anos is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 07-07-2010, 11:55 AM   #18
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie Leung View Post
Infrastructure is important, but China's demographics are leading to labor shortages. Its population is aging (average age per capita).
Plus their expectations on wages and working conditions are changing.
It's no longer enough to *have* a job; they now aspire to something noticeably better than slave labor conditions. There's more to life than subsistence and as the chinese economy improves so do its citizens' aspirations.
That is the implied deal in the whole cheap-labor "developing nation" economic model; one generation sacrifices so the next won't have to. Well, China is reaching the Next Generation. And they, reasonably, believe they deserve better.
(About time, too.)

The cheap-labor ramp to economic development isn't quite played out yet, but if none of the countries that could reasonably benefit from the emerging opening take advantage, we'll likely see a new wave of automation-based cost-reduction like we saw in the 80's before mainland China opened up.

It's not a given, though; if the world economy softens again (likely, actually) there won't be demand for extra product *or* capital for the automation investment. A bigger (and more proximate) threat than a cheap-labor shortage is a capital shortage.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:02 PM   #19
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Plus their expectations on wages and working conditions are changing.
It's no longer enough to *have* a job; they now aspire to something noticeably better than slave labor conditions. There's more to life than subsistence and as the chinese economy improves so do its citizens' aspirations.
That is the implied deal in the whole cheap-labor "developing nation" economic model; one generation sacrifices so the next won't have to. Well, China is reaching the Next Generation. And they, reasonably, believe they deserve better.
(About time, too.)

The cheap-labor ramp to economic development isn't quite played out yet, but if none of the countries that could reasonably benefit from the emerging opening take advantage, we'll likely see a new wave of automation-based cost-reduction like we saw in the 80's before mainland China opened up.

It's not a given, though; if the world economy softens again (likely, actually) there won't be demand for extra product *or* capital for the automation investment. A bigger (and more proximate) threat than a cheap-labor shortage is a capital shortage.
Yes. Nothing certain as things develop, but I agree with what you're saying in broad strokes.

As it happens, I expect things to get really ugly with the world economy. I'd really prefer to be wrong about that.
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 12:34 PM   #20
jasonfedelem
Zealot
jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jasonfedelem's Avatar
 
Posts: 118
Karma: 202232
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Device: Kindle Paperwhite Gen2
What the story does not address directly is the Foxconn suicides, and the fact that, according to reports, Foxconn is one of the Chinese manufacturers who (supposedly) treats/pays their employees better than average. There is probably a shift in the demands of workers that is starting that may actually be driving this increase (pure speculation, not an in depth analysis)
jasonfedelem is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 07-07-2010, 12:46 PM   #21
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonfedelem View Post
What the story does not address directly is the Foxconn suicides, and the fact that, according to reports, Foxconn is one of the Chinese manufacturers who (supposedly) treats/pays their employees better than average. There is probably a shift in the demands of workers that is starting that may actually be driving this increase (pure speculation, not an in depth analysis)
There is a shift in worker expectations, but I would not draw connections / conclusions with the Foxconn suicides. I'm not an expert, but I follow China labor news, and it seems that many conclusions are based on a lack of understanding, incomplete information and false assumptions. Mix that with suicide and suicide clusters, which even experts say are impossible to really understand, and there's lots of wild speculation.

I'm not saying I know what happened with Foxconn; I'm saying I know enough not to make assumptions about the case.

Just as a spoiled American who's been exposed to factory conditions, I'd say all factory work is bleak at best. If I thought my fate was to spend years or decades doing it, suicide might look appealing. And I'm not the suicidal type, lol.

Last edited by Maggie Leung; 07-07-2010 at 12:51 PM.
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 02:55 PM   #22
HamsterRage
Evangelist
HamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notes
 
HamsterRage's Avatar
 
Posts: 435
Karma: 24326
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Kobo
Except, of course, that all of the prosperity and industrialization in China has occurred in the coastal regions, while there are still the better part of a billion people living in poverty in the interior. They'd be happy for those crappy, underpaid manufacturing jobs.
HamsterRage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 02:59 PM   #23
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamsterRage View Post
Except, of course, that all of the prosperity and industrialization in China has occurred in the coastal regions, while there are still the better part of a billion people living in poverty in the interior. They'd be happy for those crappy, underpaid manufacturing jobs.
Yes, the story touched on that. Of course, the coastal areas were chosen because of transportation efficiencies and such.
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 07:27 PM   #24
jasonfedelem
Zealot
jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jasonfedelem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jasonfedelem's Avatar
 
Posts: 118
Karma: 202232
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Device: Kindle Paperwhite Gen2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie Leung View Post
There is a shift in worker expectations, but I would not draw connections / conclusions with the Foxconn suicides. I'm not an expert, but I follow China labor news, and it seems that many conclusions are based on a lack of understanding, incomplete information and false assumptions. Mix that with suicide and suicide clusters, which even experts say are impossible to really understand, and there's lots of wild speculation.

I'm not saying I know what happened with Foxconn; I'm saying I know enough not to make assumptions about the case.

Just as a spoiled American who's been exposed to factory conditions, I'd say all factory work is bleak at best. If I thought my fate was to spend years or decades doing it, suicide might look appealing. And I'm not the suicidal type, lol.

Fair enough.
jasonfedelem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 07:40 PM   #25
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,538
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie Leung View Post
Yes, the story touched on that. Of course, the coastal areas were chosen because of transportation efficiencies and such.
Contract manufacturers like Foxconn are being squeezed to the max already. They do make their money (and their profit margins are extremely low) off the assembly only. I have read that only 6.94 USD for every IPad is assembly cost paid to Foxconn. Foxconn are being told by their customers (Apple, Dell, etc.) where to buy what components at what price and just pass these costs on. The ones who place the orders know Foxconn's cost and dictates a price. Wages have increased 50% since 2005 (even before the recent publicity), workers can pick and choose between factories according to wages, working conditions, and hours. That alone keeps wages rising. So the only one who could afford to pay for raises, etc. are the Apples, Dells, and HP's. And all of us, in the end.

But you will be surprised how quickly factories move, in spite of all the obvious problems involved. In 2-3 years 50-80% of the electronics may be gone from Shenzhen. Transportation inefficiencies pale compared to labor costs and local authorities usually work very quickly to remove those inefficiencies when they want to attract new factories to their areas. I have seen it happen before. And that is not a bad thing. Other areas in China and other countries are in desperate need of such jobs which will help to pull these areas out of poverty. Just as they have helped develop the coastal areas in Southern China.

Last edited by HansTWN; 07-07-2010 at 07:44 PM.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #26
HamsterRage
Evangelist
HamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notesHamsterRage can name that song in three notes
 
HamsterRage's Avatar
 
Posts: 435
Karma: 24326
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
I have read that only 6.94 USD for every IPad is assembly cost paid to Foxconn.
So doesn't that mean that even if the assembly price doubles, which would be a huge increase, that the cost of an iPad would only go up $6.94? Which would only be 3% on the $200 cost to build the whole iPad.

And during the time it takes for that increase, all the component parts are going drop by a total even higher than that $6.94, won't they?
HamsterRage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 11:07 PM   #27
brecklundin
Banned
brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.brecklundin is as sexy as a twisted cruller doughtnut.
 
Posts: 1,906
Karma: 15348
Join Date: Jun 2007
Device: mine
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamsterRage View Post
So doesn't that mean that even if the assembly price doubles, which would be a huge increase, that the cost of an iPad would only go up $6.94? Which would only be 3% on the $200 cost to build the whole iPad.

And during the time it takes for that increase, all the component parts are going drop by a total even higher than that $6.94, won't they?
This is why it's total BS that it costs too much to mfg products in the US....given a $300+ mark-up over cost, or about 150% of mfg costs, if the labor costs tripled you would hear Steve Jobs whine like the greedy POS he is that they would need to add $200 to the cost of the iPad to cover increased labor costs. Of course it would also extend to phone mfg's, TV mfg's you name to the made in Guadulawhothehllcares countries where workers cannot even get paid well enough to own the very products they make. This is the inherent flaw in our market setup. Yes we need free markets BUT I do not buy into the whole "we are making life everywhere better by taking jobs OUT of your country to some dirt floor factory Quonset hut factory". It's all about the cookie cutter "business majors" we chun out all with the same mindset on how to run a business and what defines a "successful" business. Once upon a time it was enough to take care of your employees, provide for your families and as long as the ROI was in the black people were happy....now everyone has to have year-over-year percentage increases...meaning the rate of increase has to increase every quarter, or whatever period. No longer is it fine to have a 10% ROI it has to grow by xx% over the previous period which by definition is inflationary once you reach market saturation...the rate of increase has to keep raising, which if a spin-doctor way of saying the growth rate needs to keep inflating every period, as in it has an INFLATION RATE which only devalues funds earned during the previous period because the current price has a higher rate of price increase.

Might not have worded that exactly as I wanted but the idea distilled down is the current ideas taught to "business majors" is that inflation is GOOD for The Company and no concern is given to customer retention any longer...hence 2hr waits on hold for customer service while Dave from AT&T is on another Line as Joe from Dell support...

I don't blame those with the jobs, I blame the whole corrupted market system we have devolved into as a planet.
brecklundin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 11:54 PM   #28
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,538
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
That sounds good, Brecklundin. However, I have seen it in every country in Asia I visit and it is the same in the US: young people don't want to work in factories as living standards rise. They prefer service industry jobs, even at lower pay. Additionally there are a host of other regulations that make running factories profitably in "advanced" countries quite difficult. Just as there are so many immigrants in the US because no American wants to do those jobs.

Last edited by HansTWN; 07-07-2010 at 11:56 PM.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:30 AM   #29
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post

But you will be surprised how quickly factories move, in spite of all the obvious problems involved. In 2-3 years 50-80% of the electronics may be gone from Shenzhen. Transportation inefficiencies pale compared to labor costs and local authorities usually work very quickly to remove those inefficiencies when they want to attract new factories to their areas. I have seen it happen before. And that is not a bad thing. Other areas in China and other countries are in desperate need of such jobs which will help to pull these areas out of poverty. Just as they have helped develop the coastal areas in Southern China.
Yes, the story touched on factories moving inland. It's not that moving would be surprising. There will be costs involved, is all. Of course, with Chinese cities competing for jobs, companies might not have to eat all the costs. (Happens all over the world with tax breaks, infrastructure contributions, bonds, cheap loans and such.)
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:45 AM   #30
Maggie Leung
Wizard
Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.Maggie Leung beat Jules Verne's record by 5 days.
 
Posts: 1,449
Karma: 58383
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansTWN View Post
That sounds good, Brecklundin. However, I have seen it in every country in Asia I visit and it is the same in the US: young people don't want to work in factories as living standards rise. They prefer service industry jobs, even at lower pay. Additionally there are a host of other regulations that make running factories profitably in "advanced" countries quite difficult. Just as there are so many immigrants in the US because no American wants to do those jobs.
I agree with Brecklundin about some of the negative consequences of shipping away jobs, but also have seen what HansTWN mentions.

My grandmother worked in a garment factory in San Francisco, sewing major-label clothing for $9 to $11 per dozen blouses. Everyone in the street full of garment factories was Asian. That was nearly three decades ago. Nowadays, with the few remaining textile jobs in the U.S., you'll see likewise -- all the workers are first-generation Asian Americans or Latino Americans.

Even decades ago, my grandmother couldn't have reasonably afforded what she sewed. I remember seeing the blouses in stores such as Macy's, each selling for multiples of what my grandmother earned per dozen.

Last edited by Maggie Leung; 07-08-2010 at 01:49 AM.
Maggie Leung is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'What Price Liberty' available pre-publication as variable price ebook garygibsonsf Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 2 11-04-2010 10:38 PM
Recent surge of US only books at Sony Shiren Sony Reader 11 04-07-2010 08:44 PM
FRY's Electronics lowest price on Astak EZ Reader tomorrow Robertb Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 16 07-05-2009 10:02 AM
E-books poised for 'huge surge' in 2010, says Fictionwise exec DaleDe News 4 03-30-2009 01:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:34 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.