Kobo v Paperwhite for readability; and which model of Kobo to go for

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by bluepeter

Yes. But the very fact that a frontlight is needed for reading simple text in a normally lit room is itself evidence that colour e-readers are not very good at their primary function. If you can read a book in your favoured lighting conditions, you ought also to be able to read on an e-reader with no additional lighting.

I agree. I hardly ever use a front light.

[nelamvr6]

In my opinion calling the contrast of the Kobo Libra Color "dreadful" is ridiculous. I totally disagree with those who have posted here disparaging the Libra Color. It's possible that my eyes are better than theirs, but I have no problem reading on the Libra Color, and I have switched from a 12 Generation Kindle Paperwhite only within the last week.

Certainly the PW and other B/W models will have better contrast. The technology used to deliver color capability involves using an additional layer on the display. But the differences are NOT night and day, the Libra Color is NOT horrible as they have asserted.

The real problem is that there is no way to go to a store and see the Kobo Libra Color for yourself.

[gustophersmob]

I just switched from an older, 2013 kindle PW to the Clara BW. It’s obviously a different change that what you’re considering since your device is newer with a larger screen.

To me, the Clara BW is a very nice device, with several improvements over kindle. I like its better UI (compared to the new kindles). I like the contrast and warm light. The calibre integration is phenomenal. Ease of side loading, and the dedicated side loading mode, are top features to me. I also like the ability to quickly use multiple custom dictionaries.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by gustophersmob

I just switched from an older, 2013 kindle PW to the Clara BW. It’s obviously a different change that what you’re considering since your device is newer with a larger screen.

To me, the Clara BW is a very nice device, with several improvements over kindle. I like its better UI (compared to the new kindles). I like the contrast and warm light. The calibre integration is phenomenal. Ease of side loading, and the dedicated side loading mode, are top features to me. I also like the ability to quickly use multiple custom dictionaries.

That's the problem with amazon calling all their devices Paperwhite. Comapring just about any 6+ year device to any modern ones will be night and day. (with the possible exception of the Kindle Voyage.)

[gustophersmob]

Originally Posted by rashkae

That's the problem with amazon calling all their devices Paperwhite. Comapring just about any 6+ year device to any modern ones will be night and day. (with the possible exception of the Kindle Voyage.)

In my experience, the newest basic is the first kindle besides the voyage and PW3 to equal the contrast of my old PW2. Maybe the oasis, though my friend has one that isn’t as good, I know they vary.

Even the Clara BW has a more grey background than the old PW2, but the text is much more black, so it has better contrast overall.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by nelamvr6

In my opinion calling the contrast of the Kobo Libra Color "dreadful" is ridiculous. I totally disagree with those who have posted here disparaging the Libra Color. It's possible that my eyes are better than theirs, but I have no problem reading on the Libra Color, and I have switched from a 12 Generation Kindle Paperwhite only within the last week.

Certainly the PW and other B/W models will have better contrast. The technology used to deliver color capability involves using an additional layer on the display. But the differences are NOT night and day, the Libra Color is NOT horrible as they have asserted.

The real problem is that there is no way to go to a store and see the Kobo Libra Color for yourself.

I went to a store and saw the Onyx Boox equivalent.

I've seen the photos, videos and read technical descriptions.
Basic physics
1) It can't easily be used without a front light in normal light good enough for mono eink without front light or paper.
2) The pattern of coloured dots mean certain fonts and mono images will have artefacts.
3) The colour is 150 dpi and the mono can't be a true 300 dpi due to the coloured printed dots.
4) The dots don't cover the pixels so as to allow better brightness, and make mono seem a little sharper than 150 dpi. This means only pastel shades.
5) Eink only has 14 levels between fully black and white. This means colours are really poor.
6) Because it's a 2 x 2 pattern and not RGB stripes on 1/3rd width pixels the processing, thus power consumption to do colour refreshes is increased.
7) High speed refresh (less shades) isn't compatible with colour use, so colour refresh is as slow as the slowest grey scale images for any sort of coloured content with more than 8 basic shades.

This isn't new. It's 3 year old that could have been done 12 years ago. It's a marketing fad.

I won't waste my money on it. An emperor with very few clothes. It's poor colour and contrast and hugely (night & day) degrades reading actual novels. If Gallery was about x20 faster it might be viable, but Kaleido will go the way of Triton or "kill" eink if there are not decent mono markets.

Kobo, by all means sell your Libra colour, but what stupidity led you to have no 7″ mono model? Why end the Libra 2?

I'll stick to mono Libra and Sage for ebooks. I'll use better solutions when I really need colour.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by kangxi

Hi all,
I'm considering changing from a Kindle Paperwhite to a Kobo (after the advice of Sirtel on this blog), mainly because of its relationship with Calibre and better management than a Kindle. But I neglected to ask about the most fundamental attribute of an ebook reader: how easy is it to read a book on it? I'm talking about the size and clarity of the screen, the lighting, the ease on the eyes, the user control over how it presents itself.
In those respect I found my Kindle Paperwhite to be quite good - I never got eyestrain or had problems with reading the text. How does a Kobo b/w Clara compare with a Kindle? I note that the screen is slightly larger, which is promising.

And given that all I want to do is read and manage books (I don't want to make notes and colour is not important) is the Clara the best option for me?

Also, is there any chance the Clara could be upgraded or replaced in the near future?

I bought last week all the new "Kindle family" available (Kindle Matcha, Paperwhite and Colorsoft) and I find the contrast very good on all devices. I have always found the contrast on Kobo e-readers to be very good as well. I wouldn't worry about this aspect when choosing one or the other. I would focus more on what they offer. In my case I prefer Kindle because it suits my preferences, but Kobo also has very good arguments in its favour. Any Kobo you buy is going to be very pleasing to the eye.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I went to a store and saw the Onyx Boox equivalent.

I've seen the photos, videos and read technical descriptions.
Basic physics
1) It can't easily be used without a front light in normal light good enough for mono eink without front light or paper.
2) The pattern of coloured dots mean certain fonts and mono images will have artefacts.
3) The colour is 150 dpi and the mono can't be a true 300 dpi due to the coloured printed dots.
4) The dots don't cover the pixels so as to allow better brightness, and make mono seem a little sharper than 150 dpi. This means only pastel shades.
5) Eink only has 14 levels between fully black and white. This means colours are really poor.
6) Because it's a 2 x 2 pattern and not RGB stripes on 1/3rd width pixels the processing, thus power consumption to do colour refreshes is increased.
7) High speed refresh (less shades) isn't compatible with colour use, so colour refresh is as slow as the slowest grey scale images for any sort of coloured content with more than 8 basic shades.

This isn't new. It's 3 year old that could have been done 12 years ago. It's a marketing fad.

I won't waste my money on it. An emperor with very few clothes. It's poor colour and contrast and hugely (night & day) degrades reading actual novels. If Gallery was about x20 faster it might be viable, but Kaleido will go the way of Triton or "kill" eink if there are not decent mono markets.

Kobo, by all means sell your Libra colour, but what stupidity led you to have no 7″ mono model? Why end the Libra 2?

I'll stick to mono Libra and Sage for ebooks. I'll use better solutions when I really need colour.

We should have had the Libra 3 which would be the Libra Colour without the colour.

[jackie_w]

My photography skills are non-existent but FWIW this is a photo I took of a Libra Colour and a Libra2, at night in a low-lit room (at max orange setting). If one is "night & day worse" than the other for reading a black-and-white page of a standard ebook it should be obvious which is which, shouldn't it?

It isn't obvious to me at "real-life size". The only time I was able to see a noticeable difference is when I used a Sherlock-style magnifying glass. Of course, YMMV.

[nelamvr6]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I went to a store and saw the Onyx Boox equivalent.

I've seen the photos, videos and read technical descriptions.
Basic physics
1) It can't easily be used without a front light in normal light good enough for mono eink without front light or paper.
2) The pattern of coloured dots mean certain fonts and mono images will have artefacts.
3) The colour is 150 dpi and the mono can't be a true 300 dpi due to the coloured printed dots.
4) The dots don't cover the pixels so as to allow better brightness, and make mono seem a little sharper than 150 dpi. This means only pastel shades.
5) Eink only has 14 levels between fully black and white. This means colours are really poor.
6) Because it's a 2 x 2 pattern and not RGB stripes on 1/3rd width pixels the processing, thus power consumption to do colour refreshes is increased.
7) High speed refresh (less shades) isn't compatible with colour use, so colour refresh is as slow as the slowest grey scale images for any sort of coloured content with more than 8 basic shades.

This isn't new. It's 3 year old that could have been done 12 years ago. It's a marketing fad.

I won't waste my money on it. An emperor with very few clothes. It's poor colour and contrast and hugely (night & day) degrades reading actual novels. If Gallery was about x20 faster it might be viable, but Kaleido will go the way of Triton or "kill" eink if there are not decent mono markets.

Kobo, by all means sell your Libra colour, but what stupidity led you to have no 7″ mono model? Why end the Libra 2?

I'll stick to mono Libra and Sage for ebooks. I'll use better solutions when I really need colour.

You're obviously free to buy what you wish and leave the others on the shelf.
Most of your assertions are sketchy, but your assertion that the difference is night and day is demonstrably untrue.

I have exactly ZERO problems reading with my Libra Color. I don't find that the experience of reading novels is degraded at all. Not even a little.

[nelamvr6]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

My photography skills are non-existent but FWIW this is a photo I took of a Libra Colour and a Libra2, at night in a low-lit room (at max orange setting). If one is "night & day worse" than the other for reading a black-and-white page of a standard ebook it should be obvious which is which, shouldn't it?

It isn't obvious to me at "real-life size". The only time I was able to see a noticeable difference is when I used a Sherlock-style magnifying glass. Of course, YMMV.

Of course it's not night and day. Suggesting that the difference is night and day is laughable.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

My photography skills are non-existent but FWIW this is a photo I took of a Libra Colour and a Libra2, at night in a low-lit room (at max orange setting). If one is "night & day worse" than the other for reading a black-and-white page of a standard ebook it should be obvious which is which, shouldn't it?

It isn't obvious to me at "real-life size". The only time I was able to see a noticeable difference is when I used a Sherlock-style magnifying glass. Of course, YMMV.

That is a useless comparison. The valid comparison is in ambient light good enough to read a non-POD paperback or any Carta variant eink screen with front light off.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by nelamvr6

You're obviously free to buy what you wish and leave the others on the shelf.

Most of your assertions are sketchy, but your assertion that the difference is night and day is demonstrably untrue.

I have exactly ZERO problems reading with my Libra Color. I don't find that the experience of reading novels is degraded at all. Not even a little.

No, because the Libra Colour replaces the superior Libra2, if you are reading regular novels.

I've had/have 167, 150, 227 dpi and approximately 267dpi (Original H2O). The original H2O is nearly as good as a 300 dpi screen. The 167 (older Kindle Basic) and 150 dpi are really a lot poorer, especially on nicer smaller fonts.

You'll see least difference with a Sans font optimised for screens. You'll see most difference with a serif font designed for paper.

I glad you are happy with it. but it's a physical fact that for smaller serif monochrome text that the Libra Colour is inferior to the Libra and Libra 2 and needs the front light on in ambient light good enough to read a newspaper, and the mono libra models, PW3, Original H2O, Sage etc don't need front light on.

With front light on you lose one of the big advantages of eink, that the "paper" is neutral no matter ambient colour temperature and isn't glowing. The Nxtpaper 2.0 is superior to eink with front light on.

The only advantage of the Libra Color over Libra or Libra 2 is the poor pastel colouration. It's inherently inferior for mono, no matter how many people claim to be happy with it.

[ableal]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

My photography skills are non-existent but FWIW this is a photo I took of a Libra Colour and a Libra2, at night in a low-lit room (at max orange setting). If one is "night & day worse" than the other for reading a black-and-white page of a standard ebook it should be obvious which is which, shouldn't it?

Isn't the Color the one on the left?

I'm looking at the picture on a large screen, at about lifesize checked against my own Libra2. For me the left image is uncomfortable to look at.

Thanks for the photo, appreciated.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ableal

Isn't the Color the one on the left?

I'm looking at the picture on a large screen, at about lifesize checked against my own Libra2. For me the left image is uncomfortable to look at.

Thanks for the photo, appreciated.

I don't like either screen as I don't like the warm light. I would like to see a photo of both in a room with good light and no frontlight on.