Do ebooks burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit, too?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Quoth

This is not new.
Not news.
There are two extremes of parents for last 30 years:

• Ones that let their kids access anything on the internet and don't at all supervise what's read from library or accessed. Now letting 7 year olds have smart phones.
• Extreme control freaks who only let teen have dumb phone, totally control every book in house, no web access at all, or 100% supervised. Often decide to "Home School" even if the local schools are fine.

And there's a lot of people in the middle who don't think the schools should be giving kids access to books that are not appropriate for their age. Ultimately parents should make the final decision for their children (especially young children), not the schools.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

And there's a lot of people in the middle who don't think the schools should be giving kids access to books that are not appropriate for their age. Ultimately parents should make the final decision for their children (especially young children), not the schools.

Instead of banning books from school libraries, require children to get parental permission to use these libraries. Library collections remain in tact and parents can keep their children sheltered from books they find offensive. Problem solved.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Instead of banning books from school libraries, require children to get parental permission to use these libraries. Library collections remain in tact and parents can keep their children sheltered from books they find offensive. Problem solved.

I agree. Problem is a lot of school teachers think the parents should butt out. That they (the teachers) have somehow been anointed from "on high" to enforce their personal decisions on other people's children. That they know better what kids should and shouldn't be reading. I didn't have this problem. My kids were all home schooled.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Instead of banning books from school libraries, require children to get parental permission to use these libraries. Library collections remain in tact and parents can keep their children sheltered from books they find offensive. Problem solved.

I take it that you don't think there will be any issues for the libraries in trying to enforce your overly simplistic solution? How when some parents will allow and encourage their children to read a book and others won't want their child to be in the neighbourhood of that book are they to manage this? One family has no objections to their child reading a book featuring a non-traditional family while another family thinks their child reading such a book is the gateway to the apocalypse. Keeping the 'questionable' books behind the counter and check ID before allowing children to view them? I don't know about your school system in Norway but around here, the average school librarian does not have the time to spend.

Or were you thinking of simply denying access to the entire library? Toss the baby out with the bathwater method of managing the library collections?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I agree. Problem is a lot of school teachers think the parents should butt out. That they (the teachers) have somehow been anointed from "on high" to enforce their personal decisions on other people's children. That they know better what kids should and shouldn't be reading. I didn't have this problem. My kids were all home schooled.

That's a two-way street with a lot of parents who think that they're the moral guardians of other people's children. The happy middle ground is for parents to choose which books their children can and can't check out from school libraries. That way, no one's rights are infringed.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I agree. Problem is a lot of school teachers think the parents should butt out. That they (the teachers) have somehow been anointed from "on high" to enforce their personal decisions on other people's children. That they know better what kids should and shouldn't be reading. I didn't have this problem. My kids were all home schooled.

Considering the number of parents who seem to feel the teachers are responsible for instilling manners and morals in the student?

I take it you agree with the zealots who let their children die rather than expose them to medical treatment that does not fit their world view. Their children and their right to let them die.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I take it that you don't think there will be any issues for the libraries in trying to enforce your overly simplistic solution? How when some parents will allow and encourage their children to read a book and others won't want their child to be in the neighbourhood of that book are they to manage this? One family has no objections to their child reading a book featuring a non-traditional family while another family thinks their child reading such a book is the gateway to the apocalypse. Keeping the 'questionable' books behind the counter and check ID before allowing children to view them? I don't know about your school system in Norway but around here, the average school librarian does not have the time to spend.

Or were you thinking of simply denying access to the entire library? Toss the baby out with the bathwater method of managing the library collections?

On reflection, my first proposal was too restrictive. I'm now modifying it.

Parents who don't want their kids to have access to certain books can go to the school library and make a list of those books. The library staff will eventually input those books into the computer for that child's account. Then if that child attempts to check out one of those books, the computer alerts the staff and the child is denied.

BTW, I'm from Seattle, not Norway.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That's a two-way street with a lot of parents who think that they're the moral guardians of other people's children. The happy middle ground is for parents to choose which books their children can and can't check out from school libraries. That way, no one's rights are infringed.

And exactly how is that going to be managed? Are you planning on paying for an extra librarian or more for the larger schools? Are we now to keep all books behind locked doors and check student ID before letting them access the books? It's not as if every parent is going to agree with other parents on which books their child should be able to access.

I don't know about you but I've sat through too many meetings and, for the most part, if you have 20 parents complaining about access to library books, you'll find they are complaining about 20 different sets of books.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I take it that you don't think there will be any issues for the libraries in trying to enforce your overly simplistic solution? How when some parents will allow and encourage their children to read a book and others won't want their child to be in the neighbourhood of that book are they to manage this? One family has no objections to their child reading a book featuring a non-traditional family while another family thinks their child reading such a book is the gateway to the apocalypse. Keeping the 'questionable' books behind the counter and check ID before allowing children to view them? I don't know about your school system in Norway but around here, the average school librarian does not have the time to spend.

Or were you thinking of simply denying access to the entire library? Toss the baby out with the bathwater method of managing the library collections?

Shouldn’t be too difficult actually, have an ID system which most if not all schools have anyway. Scan the book scan the ID. If the book is restricted based on whatever criteria the system doesn’t let the book get checked out.

As to books checked out by students who’s parents don’t restrict them influencing or informing students who are restricted that happens anyway in this big ol’ world of ours.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DNSB

And exactly how is that going to be managed?

See post 22.

Are you planning on paying for an extra librarian or more for the larger schools? Are we now to keep all books behind locked doors and check student ID before letting them access the books? It's not as if every parent is going to agree with other parents on which books their child should be able to access.

Until the library gets around to inputting a student's restricted list, it falls upon the parents to teach their children which books their kids can't check out. If that fails, then those parents can have their child's library privileges revoked. At no time should they be allowed to impose their moral values upon the library's collection as a whole.

I don't know about you but I've sat through too many meetings and, for the most part, if you have 20 parents complaining about access to library books, you'll find they are complaining about 20 different sets of books.

A restricted list of books tied to each child's account solves that problem.

[Quoth]

The existing SW may not have such fine grained permissions.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

On reflection, my first proposal was too restrictive. I'm now modifying it.

Parents who don't want their kids to have access to certain books can go to the school library and make a list of those books. The library staff will eventually input those books into the computer for that child's account. Then if that child attempts to check out one of those books, the computer alerts the staff and the child is denied.

And if the child sits in the library reading the book? Or perhaps gets their buddy to obtain the book from them? The first law of security applies (the one that reads if you don't have physical security, you don't have security).

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

BTW, I'm from Seattle, not Norway.

Now I have to wonder where I got the impression that you were Norwegian from.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

See post 22.

See post 23. Who's going to pay for the extra work involved? Again, your school library systems may be well funded. None of the ones that I am aware are.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

A restricted list of books tied to each child's account solves that problem.

Do you have any familiarity with the software used by school libraries? I have been involved with such software and I am not aware of any package that allows such fine grained permissions. Quite a few of them don't even have grade/age based limitations.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DNSB

See post 23. Who's going to pay for the extra work involved? Again, your school library systems may be well funded. None of the ones that I am aware are.

If funding can't or won't be increased, then parents who have issues with a school library's collection are free to remove their child's access to the library. At no time should any of the books be banned or placed in a secured area.

Do you have any familiarity with the software used by school libraries? I have been involved with such software and I am not aware of any package that allows such fine grained permissions. Quite a few of them don't even have grade/age based limitations.

It shouldn't be difficult to have the software modified by the software owners.

Again, I'm not in favor of banning books or placing them in secured areas. Better that a child loses library access than for books to be banned for all children.

[JSWolf]

The solution (IMHO) is to not let the child have the UN/PW for the library system and when they want to check out books, a parent sits with the child when they go find books to check out.