Why so many different file formats?

[theducks]

The one that will come to the top will be the one that:
1) Caused the most FUD
2)Spent a lot of $ advertising
3) Bought out or smashed it' competition.

It will not win because of its:
1) Superior technical solution.
2) Widespread acclaim.
3) Lifetime Cost savings to the end user.(Cheap initial cost is not always the cheapest to use)
4) Works best for ALL conditions

Examples:
NTSC vs PAL (old TV signal standard) ((DTV has a way better Picture but fails TOTALY in weak signal (emergency?) conditions)
VHS vs Betamax
SQ/QS vs CD4 vs Discrete Tape (Quad sound, the predecessor to DTS/Dolby Surround)
Videotape vs Laserdisc (Play only) (replaced by DVD)
M$ Windows vs MAC O/S (Linux was not around then)

A Dominant solution is not always the best solution.

One Size rarely Fits All

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Mobi has no CSS at all.

Not as a separate file, but it does have similar functionality built into the html, and all the mobi conversion programs will take styles from a css file and apply them.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Not as a separate file, but it does have similar functionality built into the html, and all the mobi conversion programs will take styles from a css file and apply them.

Attributes in a tag are not cascading style sheets. They do not cascade, and that's the whole point of CSS - write it once and have it applied to lots of things.

Jellby is 100% correct; Mobi does not support CSS in any form whatsoever.

[Jack Tingle]

Why are there so many different ebook formats?
History.

Which ones are the most loved and preferred?
Depends on who you ask. WRT text publishing: My favorite is MS Reader .lit. No one uses that much anymore. Mobipocket .prc/.mobi/.azw is very good at the modest number of things it does. ePub is a lot more capable than Mobipocket, but all of the things it does aren't really required unless you're doing some pretty challenging publishing.

Why would you convert a PDF to a MOBI for example?
PDF is a very inflexible (intentionally) format. Mobi is a very flexible, small footprint format. If you want a smaller file, which can be read well on a less powerful platform, and which reflows to a wide range of screen sizes, mobi/prc/azw is a good choice. It's also Kindle's native format, with all the advantages of the Amazon ecosystem.

Which file format is the most user friendly for an ereader newbie?
Whichever one your reader, in your case, a JBL, reads natively. JBLs fortunately are pretty omnivorous, but ePub works very well on them, so that would be your default choice, I'd guess. I own a JB-non-L, and tend to choose ePub when it's available. On my Kindle 3, I use .prc or .mobi.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Attributes in a tag are not cascading style sheets. They do not cascade, and that's the whole point of CSS - write it once and have it applied to lots of things.

Jellby is 100% correct; Mobi does not support CSS in any form whatsoever.

But the programs that convert html to mobi do ...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But the programs that convert html to mobi do ...

Yes, that's very true. One can certainly say "Mobipocket Creator" (or whatever) supports CSS. That's a very different thing to saying "the Mobipocket file format supports CSS".

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, that's very true. One can certainly say "Mobipocket Creator" (or whatever) supports CSS. That's a very different thing to saying "the Mobipocket file format supports CSS".

The point I was trying to make is that html + css will be useful long after mobi and epub are dead and gone. You can read them on just about any device that exists now, and convert them for anything that might come along in the future. A css file isn't really essential for that, but if you have one it makes sense to keep it rather than delete it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

The point I was trying to make is that html + css will be useful long after mobi and epub are dead and gone. You can read them on just about any device that exists now, and convert them for anything that might come along in the future. A css file isn't really essential for that, but if you have one it makes sense to keep it rather than delete it.

Oh yes, I completely agree about that.

[fjtorres]

Politics and religion aside the *why* is easy:

Short answer: History.
Contrary to what some may believe, ebooks didn't start in 2008 with the appearance of ePub or even 2007 with the Kindle 1.

Long answer:
ebooks have been around since the 1970's.
And as technolgy has improved, the formats used for creating/distribution electronic editions of books has slowly evolved, leaving used with a dozen or so formats to deal with. Each format was created and adopted for very rational reasons and it is only recently that the choice of an ebook format has become a subject for acrimony and flame wars.
Before then, people understood why the formats exist and accepted that while the multiplicity is a pain, there is nothing personal about it. eBooks come in whatever format the creator had available at the time and if you didn't like it you convert it to one you like or look elsewhere. In the "old days" of three years ago, there was no feeling of entitlement as everybody knew and understood they were pioneers and "you can always tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs". It was enough just to *find* the content you wanted in *any* ebook format you could use.

Really long answer:
The first ebooks were created to be read on time-share terminals. Usually VT100 or 3270s, connected to VAXes and IBM 360's and 370's. The first format was ASCII TXT with hard-coded line breaks, formated for 80-column displays which, after margins left about 60-64 characters per line. Look at project Gutenberg files and you'll see what the stuff looked like.

In the 80's PCs and home computers with bit-mapped displays arose and character formatting became common so RTF with support for reflowing tagged text became the format of choice as it allowed itallics, bold, centering, subscripts and superscripts, and even oversized text for headings. In the late 80's quality bit-mapped displays and laser printers became accessible and typography ceased to be the domain of the high-priests of publishing and pdf emerged as a document archival system so that highly formatted documents could be stored and distributed electronically in between printings. PDF was never intended as an ebook format but since it produces pretty pictures it was adopted as such in many areas right around the time when the first modern ebook formats were adopted. Unlike PDF which is primarily concerned with page layout rather than content (PDF doesn't know about words, sentences, or paragraphs just strings of characters; it *does* know fonts, sidebars, headers and footers) the modern ebook formats generally leave page formatting and typography to the reader apps and focus on document structure and content.

When the web brought HTML (a useful subset of the older but unusably unwieldy SGML) to prominence some sources adopted HTML as a more open alternative to rtf and PDF.

When the PalmPilot appeared in the mid-90's, bringing the first truly portable bit-mapped display computers to market, we saw DocReader, Peanut Reader (later eReader), iSilo, and Mobipocket bring to market ebooks in pdb variants and PRC format, all more or less based on HTML and XML. Other players of some note from the PDA era still float around in the fringes of the industry, like TomeReader's database-focused TBR format.

Shortly thereafter, Nuvomedia and Rocket Reader brought two market two promising but pricey readers that were frankly a decade ahead of their time. That gave us the rb and imp formats.

Round the turn of the century, the publishing industry realized there was a need for an *internal* common document format for books and after years of committee work, oeb (open ebook) was created as a common ebook format to be used by the big publishing houses internally. Oeb, however was never intended for consumer consumption; the idea being that retailers would wrap the oeb in proprietary wrappers and DRM.

First to market with a really good implementation was Microsoft who created created LIT format and paired it with a state of the art reader app (that sadly, has hardly been updated in 5 years yet remains ahead in onboard typography and presentation to most of the apps that have followed). By that time, Mobipocket had evolved their PRC format and the matching reader app (especially on PC) into a market leading reading solution and an actual market for commercial ebooks on PDAs and PCs developed. But, since PDAs were not as ubiquitous as cellphones and even notebook PCs weren't portable enough, some of the leading ebook vendors (most notably B&N) got out of the business. For a while Fictionwise and Amazon soldiered on beside other local and niche vendors but commercial ebooks were going nowhere.

Then the first eInk readers appeared to much acclaim for their screens and much disdain for the business model (only DRM'ed content allowed, it was absurdly priced, and purchases *expired*).

Amazon shut down their ebook store, which had sold LITs and PRCs, plus the occasional DRM'ed PDF...
...and bought out Mobipocket.

Sony brought out their second attempt at ebook Reader with the much improved 500 and 505 based on a propietary LRF/LRX format tied to a dedicated PC app much as MS Reader did.

Some asia-based reader devices adopted the WOLF format for reflowable text and the image-based PDF-like archival DejaVu document format. In eastern Europe, the FB2 format found a lot of traction for DRM-free ebooks especially when paired with the reader-friendly FBReader app.

By then it was 2007 and the first Kindle came out.
Like the Rocket Reader before it, it accessed a dedicated ebookstore without need for a PC. Like the Sony Reader, it used an eInk display and a proprietary variant of the Mobipocket DRM atop the latest version of Mobipocket PRC denoted as azw. For some ebooks (apparently not available in editable document form) kindle also brought the reviled Topaz (TPZ or azw2) format.

Six months later, an updated OEB specification--this time defining a LIT-like consumer-level wrapper standard--was introduced as ePub version 1.
Adobe promptly wrapped a proprietary DRM wrapper and Reader app and convinced Sony to deprecate their proprietary format in favor of Adobe-DRM'ed ePub, which they promptly licensed to dozens of vendors.
Adobe's DRM scheme, like Microsoft's LIT but unlike Mobipocket's and eReader's DRM, required (requires?) a PC-based app to feed the DRM'ed content to the reader. Because of Mobipocket licensing restrictions most reader gadget vendors that switched to Adobe's ADE ecosystem dropped support for Mobi DRM, rendering it primarily an App-based format for PCs, PDAs, and smartphones, much as eReader format.

When Barnes and Noble belatedly realized ebooks were a real business they bought out Fictionwise for access to their ebookstore, eReader format, and social DRM scheme, generally recognized as the least obnoxious form of DRM encumbrance extant. They then released their first Nook reader, trying to mimic as many of Kindle's features as possible and trying to add value wherever possible beyond that. In the process, they commingled the eReader DRM with ePub, to create a second epub DRM variant.

Six months later, Apple got into the game and they too wrapped ePub in a proprietary DRM-scheme producing a third incompatible ePub format. (I fully expect more ePub DRM variants. From China or France, for starters.)

This is, of course, hardly the end of the line.
ePub is still evolving (albeit slowly) and it still lacks necessary features like a standard dictionary format, a standard for annotations, and (probably) more standard rich-content extensions. So ePub 2 will likely be followed by ePub 3 at some point.
There will likely be a standard format or variant for proper academic ebooks for higher education and scientific use and it will hardly be shocking if an alternative format emerges from the floundering magazine industry.

In the rich-content ebook arena there are already two formats floating around the fringes; Blio's XPS-based one and Sharp's XMDF. More are likely.

Even more will come simply because technology marches on, change is constant, and no committee standard *ever* keeps up with either. As enook and tablet tech develops, the type and forms of content that migrates onto reader apps and gadgets will simply require their own standards and format variants. (Cookbooks, product catalogs, and children's books come to mind.)

Plus, the ebook universe is too big for any pantyhose solution; one size will never fit all.

Messy?
Yes.
But that's how emerging makets develop. Over time the legacy formats will fade away and a handful of maneageable leaders will emerge but it's early in the game and there is still too much content tied up in these legacy formats for any rational player to fully deprecate them. And anybody who thinks a universal standard of any real value will emerge is just deluding themselves. SGML tried and failed. Other attempts in other areas have met similar fates. No one can hold back the tide.

Best we can do is grin and bear it.
(And stock up on format-conversion tools. )

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Jack Tingle

Why are there so many different ebook formats?
History.

I need to type faster.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But the programs that convert html to mobi do ...

And then you could say that PDF supports CSS too, and better than Mobi.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

The point I was trying to make is that html + css will be useful long after mobi and epub are dead and gone.

Yes, that is probably true (I can't be categorical when talking about the future; actually, I can't be categorical ever ) HTML+CSS is a good source format.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n

Hello every one, I have a newbie question. Why are there so many different ebook formats?

History and technology.

Electronic texts have been around a long time, witness Project Gutenberg. But the early works on Project Gutenberg were plain ASCII text files. They had the advantage of being readable on just about anything, but had the disadvantage of only supporting text. Formatting, illustrations, and links were all lost.

To address this, several different ebook formats and corresponding markup languages evolved. One early one was PML, developed by Peanut Press, an early ebook publisher targeting Palm handhelds. It was a text based format using embedded tags, and PML ebooks supported text attributes, color, embedded illustrations and links. Palm bought them and made them the Palm Digital Media division, then sold them to Motricity, which let them languish. Motricity sold the operation to Fictionwise, who were in turn acquired by Barnes and Noble. eReader viewers exist for a number of platforms, and there is a fair bit of content in eReader format out there.

Microsoft had an entry called Microsoft Reader, aimed at Windows PCs, with a corresponding .LIT format, which is essentially encapsulated HTML. MS Reader files also supported text attributes, color, images, and links. Many ereader users like LIT files as a storage format because it's trivial to strip the DRM and convert the file to the format they prefer.

At one time, the defacto standard format was MobiPocket, created by a French ebook publisher of the same name. Mobi files are also an encapsulated HTML subset, and versions of the reader software are available for a number of platforms. Amazon bought MobiPocket in 2006, and uses their format as the base for Kindle editions.

The current defacto standard is ePub, devised by the International Digital Publishing Forum, and used by the Sony Reader and B&N nook among others. ePub is a container, and what it contains doesn't have to be text and static images. An ePub file can include audio and video, and there are efforts at creating "enhanced" ebooks that make use of this capability.

An assortment of other less used formats exist, like FB2 (which appears to be the default standard for Russian ebooks), and the IMP format used by the old Rocket eBook and current eBookwise devices.

Which ones are the most loved and preferred?

At this point, the dominant formats are MobiPocket, used by the Amazon Kindle, ePub, used by the Sony Reader and B&N nook, and PDF.

Why would you convert a PDF to a MOBI for example?

To be able to read it. Not all ereader devices support PDF files. The Kindle, for example, only handles PDF with the DX model.

In addition, most PDF files are not created with the tagging that allows the viewer to reflow the text to fit the device screen if the device does support PDF, and many PDFs are in forms you wouldn't want to reflow, because they have things like multi-column layouts which reflow would make hash of.

In general, PDF is the last format you want for an ebook, unless it's only form available.

Which file format is the most user friendly for an ereader newbie?

It will depend on the device you use to read them. Dedicated readers tend to support a particular format, like the Kindle or Sony Reader/B&N nook, so your concern will be whether the content you want to read is available in that format, and whether you can get it in a different format and convert it if it isn't.

If you read on a multi-function device, the concern is what viewers are available for the device you use, and you are faced with the issue of recalling what content is in what format displayed by which viewer.
______
Dennis

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

PDF is an excellent format for its proper purpose, which is to be a digital representation of a printed page.

However, we're discussing eBook formats here, and PDF isn't an eBook format at all, although it's sometimes perverted into being used as one. Any eBook format has to deal well with different sized screens; PDF, by its very nature, is a representation of a fixed-size page.

Agreed, PDF is for use primarily on a computer, not an e-reader.

Looking at all the devices and formats, the main one that all of them can use with current model of readers is mobi.

Some people may prefer other formats (for some reason they have a preference for epub) but mobi is pretty much the only usable and defined ebook format that all readers can use.

[HarryT]

Far more readers can use ePub than can use Mobi, although of course it's easy enough to convert Mobi to ePub.

The reason for preferring ePub is that it's an open standard, and fully documented. The Mobi file format is not documented, and of course it's proprietary to Amazon.

[screwballl]

When I did my research a little over a month ago, ALL currently selling readers can use the mobi format (since mobi was around before amazon bought them), yet several including the Kindle could NOT use epub... Granted there may be a few of the super cheap ones that may not but I was only looking at the ones with good quality, not the $40 Big Lots cheapo readers.