Why so many different file formats?

s1mp13m4n · 01-01-2011, 09:35 PM

Hello every one, I have a newbie question. Why are there so many different ebook formats? Which ones are the most loved and preferred? Why would you convert a PDF to a MOBI for example? Which file format is the most user friendly for an ereader newbie?

FF2 · 01-01-2011, 11:20 PM

Every ebook seller wants to be king of the hill and establish their format as primary.

PDF is not great for smaller screen sized readers - it is generally hard coded for a PRINTED paper page so to view it either the fonts can be small or you have to scroll left/right to see the entire page or line of text.

After that I will permit others to debate endlessly which is the best format...

It's all yours folks............

K-Thom · 01-01-2011, 11:35 PM

Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub!

Arrrgh, still can't decide!

It's PDF!

Who asked you, fella?! You a pervert on print or something?

Boy, this is a tough one ...

ATDrake · 01-01-2011, 11:42 PM

In the case of PDF to Mobi, the Kindle doesn't support reflowable PDF, which means that if you want to "enlarge" the text size and make it easier to read, you basically have to zoom in, and perhaps scroll horizontally to read the entire line if it's a large-sized "page" with a small font. So a Mobi conversion, at least, will let you read the text more comfortably, even if it loses out on pictures and tables and such.

Also, there are plenty of legacy formats from older and now more-or-less defunct models of reader which nevertheless some places like to support because people are still using their old devices.

As for which format is best, well, basically discussions on this boil down to:

DavidKitson · 01-01-2011, 11:54 PM

It's probably HTML with CSS...

I think this will be a mess for quite some time... Most e-readers are limited technology. Limited by screen size, resolution, colors, battery, reflectivity and a whole lot of other minor technological issues.

Can you imagine the web as it would have been in the days of the ALTAIR or maybe even later in a world with C64's and Sinclair Spectrums?

Sure, yes, it would have worked, but how can the web of today even compare to the BBS's that spawned it. The inexorable progress that despite having the weight of the world behind it still took two decades...

In the e-reader world, we're at about the C64 level of product evolution.

What will this bring in a decade? Maybe an e-reader will be entirely virtual. Seen through glasses and imposed over our reality - an amalgamation of augmented reality and e-paper.

Will it be something we read directly into our mind? The first stage of implants intended to bring auditory and visual hallucination. Then we might well read a paper book that doesn't exist, turning the page with fingers that aren't real.

Even more realistic changes in format to increase size to around A4 size and reduce weight while increasing battery life will be a huge improvement. Dedicated E-readers will merge with powerful low-power processors and define a new generation of computing.

The old 5 to 8" book format e-reader will probably conform to a standard "E-File compatible" or something, being given to you as a Christmas present by an Aunt you haven't seen in three years, complete with three and a half million books, all free content.

It will probably even get to the point the older, proprietary readers won't even have enough value to pawn off. You'll find them laying on the side of the road, sitting on a bus-stop seat where the batteries failed just one too many times.

Give it time and things will change... Then look out for Sony or Microsoft or someone else to start touting the new generation of e-readers...

"We've got them already."

"Yes, but this one plays video at four times the resolution!"

Nothing really ever changes does it?

David.

ebusinesstutor · 01-02-2011, 01:53 AM

Yes, it is unfortunate that there are so many formats. ePub is my favorite.

My ereader is my iPhone so luckily I can download an app for the various ebook vendors and be able to read it no matter what the format.

Worldwalker · 01-02-2011, 03:15 AM

The question isn't so much one of formats -- though PDF does have the major flaw of being intended to exactly reproduce a page on the same size paper it was laid up on, which is great for tax forms and terrible for ebooks -- as it is of DRM. If your ebooks are DRM-free, you can convert them into whatever format your reader happens to use (I like calibre for that purpose -- it's supported a few forums down) or, for that matter, whatever format the ebook reader you buy two years from now uses that hasn't been invented yet. If your books are DRM-restricted, then you're stuck with whatever the book vendor wants you to use, and if you upgrade to a different reader, you have to buy the same books all over again. Or strip the DRM, which we can't talk about on MR.

I'm one of the epub partisans, because I've got a Sony Reader; people who have Kindles use mobi, and while they're pretty much the only people who do, there are a lot of them. And, as ATDrake said, there are all sorts of legacy and niche formats out there, too. That's why freedom from DRM is so important.

JeremyR · 01-02-2011, 04:59 AM

PDF was designed to replicate a printed page. Mostly so you can print something out. But many people insist on trying to use it for e-books, even though it's just the wrong thing.

As to e-book formats, basically companies want control over their own products. By using someone else's, you have to give them a cut of your sales and have to rely on them for technical support (even more money).

DavidKitson · 01-02-2011, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyR

PDF was designed to replicate a printed page. Mostly so you can print something out. But many people insist on trying to use it for e-books, even though it's just the wrong thing.

As to e-book formats, basically companies want control over their own products. By using someone else's, you have to give them a cut of your sales and have to rely on them for technical support (even more money).

PDF is quite a good format. The issues tend to be related to the screen size of the reader.

Reading a large PDF of a monitor usually works out pretty well for e-books.

If there are images or other non-text content in the e-book then it's an excellent format for smaller PCs and tablets too.

But I wouldn't choose it for a text-only book

Regards
David

HarryT · 01-02-2011, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

PDF is quite a good format.

PDF is an excellent format for its proper purpose, which is to be a digital representation of a printed page.

However, we're discussing eBook formats here, and PDF isn't an eBook format at all, although it's sometimes perverted into being used as one. Any eBook format has to deal well with different sized screens; PDF, by its very nature, is a representation of a fixed-size page.

Pax · 01-02-2011, 07:57 AM

The answer is quite simple: Money!

patrickt · 01-02-2011, 08:41 AM

I was waiting for a dominant format to emerge but the prices for the readers dropped to the point it's not a major purchase for me and I'm old enough that I'd like to read between now and then and I suspect a standard format will not arrive before I die.

astra · 01-02-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n

Why are there so many different ebook formats?

To discourage you from converting to ebook user.

Then you will be able to provide food on publishers' tables in their yachts.
You buy expensive hardback editions or less expensive (but still a good source of money for publishers only) paper back printed books.

Life is a beach

mr ploppy · 01-02-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

It's probably HTML with CSS...

That will be the format most likely to still work long term. Epub and Mobi both seem to be based around it (with extra tags for page breaks and the like). The other differences are probably more down to wrapper and/or compression methods.

Jellby · 01-02-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Epub and Mobi both seem to be based around it

Mobi has no CSS at all.

01-01-2011, 09:35 PM	#1
s1mp13m4n Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 1278 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Kindle Oasis	Why so many different file formats? Hello every one, I have a newbie question. Why are there so many different ebook formats? Which ones are the most loved and preferred? Why would you convert a PDF to a MOBI for example? Which file format is the most user friendly for an ereader newbie?

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01-01-2011, 11:20 PM	#2
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	Every ebook seller wants to be king of the hill and establish their format as primary. PDF is not great for smaller screen sized readers - it is generally hard coded for a PRINTED paper page so to view it either the fonts can be small or you have to scroll left/right to see the entire page or line of text. After that I will permit others to debate endlessly which is the best format... It's all yours folks............

01-01-2011, 11:35 PM	#3
K-Thom The one and only Posts: 3,302 Karma: 535819 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: yup!	Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Its MOBI! It's ePub! Arrrgh, still can't decide! It's PDF! Who asked you, fella?! You a pervert on print or something? Boy, this is a tough one ...

01-01-2011, 11:42 PM	#4
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	In the case of PDF to Mobi, the Kindle doesn't support reflowable PDF, which means that if you want to "enlarge" the text size and make it easier to read, you basically have to zoom in, and perhaps scroll horizontally to read the entire line if it's a large-sized "page" with a small font. So a Mobi conversion, at least, will let you read the text more comfortably, even if it loses out on pictures and tables and such. Also, there are plenty of legacy formats from older and now more-or-less defunct models of reader which nevertheless some places like to support because people are still using their old devices. As for which format is best, well, basically discussions on this boil down to:

01-01-2011, 11:54 PM	#5
DavidKitson Mobile Story Author Posts: 87 Karma: 2688670 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Perth, Western Australia Device: Fujitsu P1510 ( Old & Clunky! )	It's probably HTML with CSS... I think this will be a mess for quite some time... Most e-readers are limited technology. Limited by screen size, resolution, colors, battery, reflectivity and a whole lot of other minor technological issues. Can you imagine the web as it would have been in the days of the ALTAIR or maybe even later in a world with C64's and Sinclair Spectrums? Sure, yes, it would have worked, but how can the web of today even compare to the BBS's that spawned it. The inexorable progress that despite having the weight of the world behind it still took two decades... In the e-reader world, we're at about the C64 level of product evolution. What will this bring in a decade? Maybe an e-reader will be entirely virtual. Seen through glasses and imposed over our reality - an amalgamation of augmented reality and e-paper. Will it be something we read directly into our mind? The first stage of implants intended to bring auditory and visual hallucination. Then we might well read a paper book that doesn't exist, turning the page with fingers that aren't real. Even more realistic changes in format to increase size to around A4 size and reduce weight while increasing battery life will be a huge improvement. Dedicated E-readers will merge with powerful low-power processors and define a new generation of computing. The old 5 to 8" book format e-reader will probably conform to a standard "E-File compatible" or something, being given to you as a Christmas present by an Aunt you haven't seen in three years, complete with three and a half million books, all free content. It will probably even get to the point the older, proprietary readers won't even have enough value to pawn off. You'll find them laying on the side of the road, sitting on a bus-stop seat where the batteries failed just one too many times. Give it time and things will change... Then look out for Sony or Microsoft or someone else to start touting the new generation of e-readers... "We've got them already." "Yes, but this one plays video at four times the resolution!" Nothing really ever changes does it? David.

01-02-2011, 01:53 AM	#6
ebusinesstutor Star Gawker Posts: 526 Karma: 6944314 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Spruce Grove, AB Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Yes, it is unfortunate that there are so many formats. ePub is my favorite. My ereader is my iPhone so luckily I can download an app for the various ebook vendors and be able to read it no matter what the format.

01-02-2011, 03:15 AM	#7
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	The question isn't so much one of formats -- though PDF does have the major flaw of being intended to exactly reproduce a page on the same size paper it was laid up on, which is great for tax forms and terrible for ebooks -- as it is of DRM. If your ebooks are DRM-free, you can convert them into whatever format your reader happens to use (I like calibre for that purpose -- it's supported a few forums down) or, for that matter, whatever format the ebook reader you buy two years from now uses that hasn't been invented yet. If your books are DRM-restricted, then you're stuck with whatever the book vendor wants you to use, and if you upgrade to a different reader, you have to buy the same books all over again. Or strip the DRM, which we can't talk about on MR. I'm one of the epub partisans, because I've got a Sony Reader; people who have Kindles use mobi, and while they're pretty much the only people who do, there are a lot of them. And, as ATDrake said, there are all sorts of legacy and niche formats out there, too. That's why freedom from DRM is so important.

01-02-2011, 04:59 AM	#8
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	PDF was designed to replicate a printed page. Mostly so you can print something out. But many people insist on trying to use it for e-books, even though it's just the wrong thing. As to e-book formats, basically companies want control over their own products. By using someone else's, you have to give them a cut of your sales and have to rely on them for technical support (even more money).

01-02-2011, 07:57 AM	#11
Pax Zealot Posts: 135 Karma: 1052388 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Germany, Potsdam Device: Pocketbook Touch HD 3, Sony PRS 650	The answer is quite simple: Money!

01-02-2011, 08:41 AM	#12
patrickt Wizard Posts: 1,221 Karma: 8381518 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Device: Paperwhite 4 X 2	I was waiting for a dominant format to emerge but the prices for the readers dropped to the point it's not a major purchase for me and I'm old enough that I'd like to read between now and then and I suspect a standard format will not arrive before I die.