E-books are "bound to fail"

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Are those people in charge of marketing, authors, owners of publishing houses? Or is everyone involved voluntarily blind ?

No, just very, very, VERY resistant to change. But in all honesty that is expected. The larger the business and the longer said business has been around, the more hidebound it becomes. It happens in everything. There is a scaling self-filter that business imposes on itself. When you are small you are free to experiment and change direction on a whim if so inclined. The larger you become the slower you adapt and eventually changing direction is a monumental task that needs to be avoided if at all possible. So after a while the only people in power are the ones who share the same point of view as the business as a giant and not the people who see the view from the end users perspective.

It's not that they are blind, they just have no reason yet to look at a new route to market. Especially true if they still have the majority of vehicles delivering the merchandise. (Sad truth from a business perspective: To increase profits just reduce competition instead of improving your own line up. It's cheaper, easier and gives the same end result for the short term.)

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And hearing about students scanning textbooks into their computers is just the kind of thing to get the publishers thinking. Ever heard the phrase, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em"?

Might be right there. I've heard that textbooks are huge money makers since they get bought all the time and take minimal updating. From many of the ones I've seen they aren't really to concerned about accuracy or facts either. I could just imagine the screaming and demands for legislation if a group of academics got together and made a cheap, accurate and updatable series of textbooks that could be distributed on a basic reader system. I imagine most schools would have no trouble subscribing to a model that ran a couple of dollars a year per student yet yielded continually updated information and removed maintainence of said volumes from their shoulders. (Hmmm, wonder what the home-school market would be?)

[RWood]

Originally Posted by stxopher

... I've heard that textbooks are huge money makers since they get bought all the time and take minimal updating. From many of the ones I've seen they aren't really to concerned about accuracy or facts either. I could just imagine the screaming and demands for legislation if a group of academics got together and made a cheap, accurate and updatable series of textbooks that could be distributed on a basic reader system. I imagine most schools would have no trouble subscribing to a model that ran a couple of dollars a year per student yet yielded continually updated information and removed maintainence of said volumes from their shoulders. (Hmmm, wonder what the home-school market would be?)

Facts in textbooks are secondary to the point-of-view of the writer and are included only when they support his/her views. Remember, textbooks in modern American education are there to teach you what to think, not how to think.

As for universities adopting the low cost textbook model, I don't think so. Remember, textbooks are written by other professors and often provide a revenue stream equal or greater than the one they already get for teaching. No one wants to be the first to rock the boat.

As for home schooling the chances there are even less vivid. School systems and professional teachers want this practice stopped because it produces superior results to the normal schooling and is a threat to them. Consequently, they already dictate the texts to be used and the tests that must be passed by each student. The only inroads here might be in the lit classes where the books are available on Gutenberg.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

These opinions about resistance to e-texts are all valid, but the end-user might have more to say about it. Just as students are scanning books, others will take advantage, impacting cost. Parents, faced with the incredible cost of textbooks over time (and the weight placed on their kids' backs by them), will look favorably on an e-text system, and will pay an initial high cost to save potentially thousands over 16 years of schooling.

Sooner or later, a company (probably, as suggested by stxopher, a small company) will see this, and market just such a system. If it is successful, other parents will pressure their local governments and school systems to offer the same. Things can, and probably will change... it's only a matter of time.

[Lucien21]

To be honest I do think the guy is probably at least partially correct.

In general people do prefer the feel and smell of a book and if you go to forums about books that is the single biggest complaint about e-books.

However I think that is a generational thing. I mean when I was young Vinyl was all the rage now look at the explosion of MP3 players etc. Most people wouldn't touch vinyl today.

For the same thing to happen to books is just a matter of time.

I think the Sony Reader etc are a step in the right direction, but they are no where near the ideal solution. IMO.

Things I see holding back the market.

* Lack of content and price (Songs sell on Itunes for cents)
* DRM - I don't want to be worrying that the books I buy will not play on future devices. PB doesn't have that problem.
* Price of units - $350 is way too high for mass market appeal. I break a PB i'm out a couple of quid. Break a Sony Reader i'm slightly more annoyed.
* Black and white - Needs to be high resolution colour to host comics/magazines etc
* battery life - The perception with the mass market is that why should they need to power something up and risk running out of power in the middle of reading when PB never need charging.


Personally my perfect E-Reader would be

* About the size of a Paperback or DVD hardcase.
* Dual High Def reflective (not LCD) Colour screens that fold out like a book. (And maybe even one on the front that would display cover art.) (Instant refresh rate)
* Touch screen that would allow use of finger to flip pages or use of a pen/stylus for note taking (esp for text books highlighting and notes)
* When flipped open you could hold it portrait style for newpapers etc
* Battery lasts for weeks
* Latest books and all the back catelogue could be bought and downloaded wirelessly
* NO Drm
* Displays everything from Manga and comic books to text books and novels.


I know I'm dreaming, but maybe in 10 years the tech might meet my dreams.

P.s on Text books - Apple did a good bit of PR with giving away Ipods to a lot of Students maybe thats the way to push e-books. Free Sony Reader with preinstalled textbooks for the new year.

[Azayzel]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Could be. To be blunt, even Sony's reader shouldn't be considered a "dedicated" reader, as it also plays music. But I see no reason why a device that simply stores and reads e-texts can't succeed, just like dedicated music players and cellphones have succeeded.

I don't think Sony really thought too much about incorporating an MP3 player into their device, but decided that it is almost too simple NOT to build one in. MP3 players are so darn cheap to manufacture and take up little to no space, they probably only spent a fraction of a second in deciding how to thro it into the mix, case in point: the clunky interface for playing music, lack of sorting/grouping, etc. It's nice to have it there, but I don't use it.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by RWood

As for home schooling the chances there are even less vivid. School systems and professional teachers want this practice stopped because it produces superior results to the normal schooling and is a threat to them. Consequently, they already dictate the texts to be used and the tests that must be passed by each student. The only inroads here might be in the lit classes where the books are available on Gutenberg.

Er... this is kind of off-topic for this thread (which I suppose has never stopped us before), but having a fair amount of experience with both school districts and home schoolers, I really have to disagree. I suppose it depends on your definition of "superior results," though. (Certainly the issue of texts being dictated by the school district is way off in every case of home schooling that I know of.)

[yvanleterrible]

E-texts in lower grades school would incite students to 'cut and paste' much too eagerly. I know it to be a major part of the decision to slow it's willfull inception in curriculae. Just imagine the work involved for teachers in sorting out what's original from what was copied. It is already a great task to sort through what is now hand written.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

E-texts in lower grades school would incite students to 'cut and paste' much too eagerly. I know it to be a major part of the decision to slow it's willfull inception in curriculae.

I can see that. But that, too, can be attacked with a change in teaching/testing methods, for instance, relying less on reports and more on supervised tests.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

E-texts in lower grades school would incite students to 'cut and paste' much too eagerly. I know it to be a major part of the decision to slow it's willfull inception in curriculae. Just imagine the work involved for teachers in sorting out what's original from what was copied. It is already a great task to sort through what is now hand written.

But it's quite easy to check a report against published material looking for plagiarized content, if the assignment is submitted electronically. There are tools that will do this for the teacher, and cite where the content is from. If the students know these tools will be used, they will know they can't get away with cut and paste.

I don't think the whole answer is in-class supervised tests. Some kinds of learning can only be assessed with long-term projects.

[clabot451]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

Personally my perfect E-Reader would be

* About the size of a Paperback or DVD hardcase.
* Dual High Def reflective (not LCD) Colour screens that fold out like a book. (And maybe even one on the front that would display cover art.) (Instant refresh rate)
* Touch screen that would allow use of finger to flip pages or use of a pen/stylus for note taking (esp for text books highlighting and notes)
* When flipped open you could hold it portrait style for newpapers etc
* Battery lasts for weeks
* Latest books and all the back catelogue could be bought and downloaded wirelessly
* NO Drm
* Displays everything from Manga and comic books to text books and novels.

I know I'm dreaming, but maybe in 10 years the tech might meet my dreams.

I agree but I' d also like a large and flexible display for e-newspapers .