Kindle Firmware 5.12.5

[Pjama]

The bookmarks used to work by simply tapping the top right of the screen - a dog ear would appear instantly, instead of a drop down with a plus sign. The drop down also shows all other bookmarks in the book, so it does look cluttered. The old way was just one tap, the new way is two, plus you have to make sure you select the right place, otherwise the book will jump to one of the other bookmarks. I agree it was a needless change. The change was probably around six years ago though.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by barryem

They even made bookmarks less simple so I have to think about them and it's distracting so I rarely use them now.

Originally Posted by Pjama

The bookmarks used to work by simply tapping the top right of the screen - a dog ear would appear instantly, instead of a drop down with a plus sign. The drop down also shows all other bookmarks in the book, so it does look cluttered. The old way was just one tap, the new way is two, plus you have to make sure you select the right place, otherwise the book will jump to one of the other bookmarks. I agree it was a needless change. The change was probably around six years ago though.

I often find amazon's UI changes make things worse for me and it took a while for me to get used to the "new" bookmarks. But once I did, it now works better for me.

I was frequently accidentally making new bookmarks with the old system and had trouble remembering how to get to existing bookmarks. Now that I am used to it, the current system is fine for me. I can see that it could be very awkward once there are a lot of bookmarks in a book.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by marioho

I don't use the bookmark system all that much. Basically, I mark the passages I'd like to go back to when revisiting key plot developments or those that are so good to read that a simple highlight won't do. I didn't notice any notable UX difference between updates though.

Could you expand on that a little?

The bookmarks used to be simple. You touch the corner and you made a bookmark. Not much thought involved. Then you could go to the list of bookmarks and go to the one you wanted.

They changed it so that now you touch the corner and you have to decide if you want to make a book mark or go to a bookmark. It's no longer thoughtless. And going to bookmarks is less intuitive now. Actually I'm not clear on any of this because I use the bookmarks so rarely.

I have a Kobo and a Nook and they keep their bookmarks simple and I do sometimes use them when I use those devices. I do most of my reading on my phone these days in Moon+ and that gives me simple bookmarks.

Barry

[barryem]

The more I think about this discussion the more I wonder why we get obligitory updates. When I buy a device that works a certain way shouldn't I be entitled to have it continue to work that way?

Amazon could make this happen by allowing us to revert to older updates. Or by having two distinct types of updates; bug fixes and new feature updates, with the latter being optional.

I was perfectly happy with my first Paperwhite when I got it. I did like some of the new features that were added later but most features meant little to me and a number were bothersome. If I knew then what I know now and if I'd had the choice I'd have left the device like it was.

Barry

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by barryem

The more I think about this discussion the more I wonder why we get obligitory updates. When I buy a device that works a certain way shouldn't I be entitled to have it continue to work that way?

Amazon could make this happen by allowing us to revert to older updates. Or by having two distinct types of updates; bug fixes and new feature updates, with the latter being optional. ...

Good points. I agree.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And it's no longer useful to the vendor when they stop updating it with the latest firmware.

Oh that's ridiculous. The business purpose of a Kindle to Amazon is not to be updated with firmware by them for nothing: that's a post-purchase support inducement to buy one in the first place, that's all: it's a *cost* to them, not a benefit. The business purpose of a Kindle to Amazon is to encourage people to buy books from them. That is all.

I just talked to a friend of mine at Amazon who works on the Kindle (well, worked: the Kindle team is rather shrunken at the moment due to emergency covid-19 redeployments). He laughed his head off when I suggested your definition of end-of-lifing, and noted that bugfixes are still released even to Kindles for which routine firmware releases have ceased if anything happens that stops you being able to use them to buy books (and, by implication, read them, since no-one would buy books they couldn't then read). He pointed at the DX as an example: no firmware updates for years, then a cert expired and bang, new update to fix that so it worked for its intended purpose again.

I suspect that *real* end-of-lifing for the older 3G-only capable Kindles (with no further firmware updates whatsoever, and no chance of using them to buy books, so you can only sideload and use whatever books are on it already) is going to come when 3G networks are turned off. I don't see that there's anything Amazon (or anyone) can do about *that*.

So, *according to the Kindle's own developers*, ceasing routine firmware updates is not end-of-lifing, and they still retain the capability to release further updates if needed. But no doubt the JSWolf Unique Definition will still stick because I'm not giving you enough details on who my friend is to let you impersonate him on national TV or something.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Oh that's ridiculous. The business purpose of a Kindle to Amazon is not to be updated with firmware by them for nothing: that's a post-purchase support inducement to buy one in the first place, that's all: it's a *cost* to them, not a benefit. The business purpose of a Kindle to Amazon is to encourage people to buy books from them. That is all.

I just talked to a friend of mine at Amazon who works on the Kindle (well, worked: the Kindle team is rather shrunken at the moment due to emergency covid-19 redeployments). He laughed his head off when I suggested your definition of end-of-lifing, and noted that bugfixes are still released even to Kindles for which routine firmware releases have ceased if anything happens that stops you being able to use them to buy books (and, by implication, read them, since no-one would buy books they couldn't then read). He pointed at the DX as an example: no firmware updates for years, then a cert expired and bang, new update to fix that so it worked for its intended purpose again.

I suspect that *real* end-of-lifing for the older 3G-only capable Kindles (with no further firmware updates whatsoever, and no chance of using them to buy books, so you can only sideload and use whatever books are on it already) is going to come when 3G networks are turned off. I don't see that there's anything Amazon (or anyone) can do about *that*.

So, *according to the Kindle's own developers*, ceasing routine firmware updates is not end-of-lifing, and they still retain the capability to release further updates if needed. But no doubt the JSWolf Unique Definition will still stick because I'm not giving you enough details on who my friend is to let you impersonate him on national TV or something.

So why didn't you ask your friend why the PW3 didn't get 5.12.5 but did get the crappy 5.12.4?

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So why didn't you ask your friend why the PW3 didn't get 5.12.5 but did get the crappy 5.12.4?

Didn't all of this happen during and after March? If so... I'd expect "manpower shortage owing to massive internal redeployments due to covid-19" would be the explanation (though I haven't asked, because, frankly, that's the sort of highly specific question to which the answer is dead certain to be "of course I can't answer that".)

When most of the team is gone and doing non-Kindle stuff for the duration, relatively unimportant forward-ports of firmware for devices not actually sold for years and which still work perfectly well is not going to be anywhere near the top of any sane development team's priority list.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Didn't all of this happen during and after March? If so... I'd expect "manpower shortage owing to massive internal redeployments due to covid-19" would be the explanation (though I haven't asked, because, frankly, that's the sort of highly specific question to which the answer is dead certain to be "of course I can't answer that".)

When most of the team is gone and doing non-Kindle stuff for the duration, relatively unimportant forward-ports of firmware for devices not actually sold for years and which still work perfectly well is not going to be anywhere near the top of any sane development team's priority list.

So why is there 5.12.5 6for the Voyage when the PW3 sold better?

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So why is there 5.12.5 6for the Voyage when the PW3 sold better?

I have no idea. I am not a telepath and I didn't ask about specific firmware releases for specific Kindles.

[Beggarmaster]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So why is there 5.12.5 6for the Voyage when the PW3 sold better?

Maybe because the Voyage cost a ton more, and there is fear of a backlash for EOL'ing a high-end model?

Question: Was the Voyage supposed to be a flagship product? I like it at the price I paid, but it sounds like this thing was sold for over $250, which just seems absurd. It makes want to pick up an Oasis and see if there's a parallel reaction to be had.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Beggarmaster

Maybe because the Voyage cost a ton more, and there is fear of a backlash for EOL'ing a high-end model?

Question: Was the Voyage supposed to be a flagship product? I like it at the price I paid, but it sounds like this thing was sold for over $250, which just seems absurd. It makes want to pick up an Oasis and see if there's a parallel reaction to be had.

Moe people bought the PW3. So why alienate more customers?

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Moe people bought the PW3. So why alienate more customers?

How many people outside of this forum do you think actually give a damn about any of this? The device can buy, download and read books from Amazon. That is what it needs to do.
How many actual cases of 5.12.4 causing an issue are there?
Does you really need to keep posting about it day after day?
The poor horse is dead, stop beating it

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

How many people outside of this forum do you think actually give a damn about any of this? The device can buy, download and read books from Amazon. That is what it needs to do.
How many actual cases of 5.12.4 causing an issue are there?
Does it really justify you continually posting about it day after day?

People who have 5.12.4 will care because there have been reports of problems. Amazon even removed 5.12.4 from download because it wasn't stable enough.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Beggarmaster

Question: Was the Voyage supposed to be a flagship product?

At the time of the Voyage release:

the Kindle Basic had:
167 dpi display
no frontlight
no page turn buttons

the PW2 had:
212 dpi display
frontlight
no page turn buttons

the Voyage had:
300 dpi flush display
frontlight (with more LEDs?)
page turn sensors with adjustable sensitivity and adjustable haptic feedback
lighter weight, thinner, narrower, and shorter

Whether all that merits flagship status at that time is subjective.