Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Yes, I do. Are you saying the god you believe in does not love the people he hates?

You're going around in a circle now and its kind of meaningless. Try adding a few more premises.

[mike_bike_kite]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

How about you describe to me what you think a fundamentalist is..

I'll try my hardest for you but obviously this is just my own definition and, as such, can hardly be called right or wrong. Fundamentalist: A person believing in an outdated belief system to the detriment of themselves and others.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by mike_bike_kite

I'll try my hardest for you but obviously this is just my own definition and, as such, can hardly be called right or wrong. Fundamentalist: A person believing in an outdated belief system to the detriment of themselves and others.

What definition are you using for "outdated?" And what counts as "detriment?" So far, I haven't seen any indication that terrazoids is a fundamentalist by that definition.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Why should anyone believe this? What evidence do you have that your interpretation of "the best a person can do" is the correct one?

The evidence is in the accumulation of accounts of peoples lives. We've accumulated several thousand years worth of historical stories and it always seems best to focus on God and stay with Right. Thats a simplification. But I prefer the person who says they don't know to the chess master who thinks he can challenge the Blue.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

You're going around in a circle now and its kind of meaningless. Try adding a few more premises.

According to the bible, God loves everybody.

According to the bible, God hates some people.

Either he loves the people he hates, or the bible is wrong.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by mike_bike_kite

I'll try my hardest for you but obviously this is just my own definition and, as such, can hardly be called right or wrong. Fundamentalist: A person believing in an outdated belief system to the detriment of themselves and others.

Right, so figure it out. That doesn't describe me or what I said in any way.

[darknessangel]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

The evidence is in the accumulation of accounts of peoples lives. We've accumulated several thousand years worth of historical stories and it always seems best to focus on God and stay with Right. Thats a simplification. But I prefer the person who says they don't know to the chess master who thinks he can challenge the Blue.

We have accumulated millions of years of "facts". Do we have the right to win now?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Its not plagiarism. We're actually talking about history and the lessons to be learned from it. History compounds, and so does religion. To focus on this is off the point though. The best a person can do in the first instance is to focus on God and what He means to our lives.

I AM talking about history. and as trite as it sounds, the fact that history does indeed repeat itself. I am attempting to point out to you that his path has been walked before (with slightly different results). how can you possibly rant about a "one true god" that has been copied and re-imagined, re-named and reworked multiple times by many different cultures? have you even read anything I have pointed out to you? can you answer the question about the Dalai lama?

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Well, there's really not that many variations on the omnipotent, enigmatic deity myth, so I guess all these fairy stories tend to gravitate towards similar basic stories.

yeah, actually there are quite a few variations

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

According to the bible, God loves everybody.

According to the bible, God hates some people.

Either he loves the people he hates, or the bible is wrong.

No the second part is wrong. So keep trying. Instead of talking to me I recommend you go read 'The Book' Reflect on it and try to understand that life events aren't just a matter of two step equations.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

No the second part is wrong. So keep trying. Instead of talking to me I recommend you go read 'The Book'.

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

The evidence is in the accumulation of accounts of peoples lives. We've accumulated several thousand years worth of historical stories and it always seems best to focus on God and stay with Right. Thats a simplification. But I prefer the person who says they don't know to the chess master who thinks he can challenge the Blue.

Well, YHVH certainly seems to like White people, if I'm looking at history & his followers. The followers are certainly pretty vicious to not-White people of other religions.

"Several thousand years?" I think that's a bit of exaggeration. Can you provide something a bit more specific? What does "focus on God and stay with the Right" get an individual today? What did it get an individual a hundred years ago?

Also, how can I, a non-Christian, tell which version of Christianity is "the Right?"

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by darknessangel

We have accumulated millions of years of "facts". Do we have the right to win now?

Great and theres no conflict there at all. I've got great news for you. Satan vs Humanity/God. Humanity wins in the end. Just stay with the winning side! Thats all.

[captcrouton]

I don't have the need to prove the existence of God scientifically. I believe in love, and you can't prove it scientifically. I suppose that it could be explained in terms of stimulus-response-survival-of-the-fittest type of terms, essentially explaining it away. But I believe love is a whole lot more than that. That its nature is something entirely different. You really couldn't convince me otherwise.

I think that scientific method is a very narrow window to see the world. I guess my dog sees the world through a similar window. He believes in what he can see, hear, taste, touch, smell. Only he doesn't know how to use microscopes and telescopes, though his hearing and smell are far more advanced. Maybe he can hear voices in the wind that I cannot. It's fun to think that anyway.

I've been reading Uncle Tom's Cabin. Some people call it racist. Others find it beautiful. But if I took the book and analyzed it purely scientifically, what percentages of the page is white, and what percent is black. Break it down to it's base carbon particles. Ran the pieces through test tubes, etc, ad nauseum... I'd be missing the point. I could get alot of information. Proof of it's weight and dimensions and wood pulp grade. (I'm actually reading it from a Kindle, but work with me here)

If I handled it like the author intended, within the book are emotions and ideas and culture and poetry. It could change my opinion, my world view, my life.

And that's how I read the universe.

Somewhere I grew out of my need to prove God to people who don't really want to believe in Him anyway. Smarter people have written books to address the issues of faith and reason. I'd rather my life be evidence of the God I love, by the choices I make, the people I help, the life I lead.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything in this forum. I've read your thoughts. Now you've read mine. Carry on.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

The evidence is in the accumulation of accounts of peoples lives. We've accumulated several thousand years worth of historical stories and it always seems best to focus on God and stay with Right.

For the vast majority of human history, slavery was considered perfectly acceptable. For the vast majority of human history, women have been treated as second class citizens. Does the fact that several thousand year's worth of historical stories support racism and misogyny make racists and misogynists right? No - knowledge moves on; religious myths were created to make sense of things that we couldn't understand. We now understand much more and have no need of these outdated fairy tales.

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Thats a simplification. But I prefer the person who says they don't know to the chess master who thinks he can challenge the Blue.

So you accept that you don't know if God exists or not?

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Leviticus 20:23
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Proverbs 6:16, 19
These six things doth the LORD hate ... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Hosea 9:15
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings.

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Well now you're just taking things out of context. Those examples are from all over the place. You can do that with Hamlet and end up with Gamlet!