Closure of Account - Access to digital content

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is why it is prudent to maintain your own copy of such items, rather than be dependent upon any third party granting you access to them. I would personally never assume that any retailer is going to be around indefinitely; I've seen too many ebook stores go under.

Heck, I've seen Amazon stop selling eBooks and when they did that, access to purchased eBooks was lost. People lost access to PDF files they bought when they needed to update the DRM and was unable to due to Amazon no longer having them for download. This was back before the Kindle.

[Cinisajoy]

Jon,
Amazon now keeps a file for buyers even if the author pulls it.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

But is it a "legal side effect"?

And I thought we were talking about Amazon who I don't believe are on the brink of going out of business, are they?

No arguments from me about a company's right to choose not to allow new purchases from any customer if they so wish. Nor about the common sense of backing up your digital content immediately if you know how.

Well, I don't know.

But I suppose Amazon could legally make the argument that you purchased and downloaded the book, hence it was a valid purchase; that you don't really have a "right" to continued downloads, except through your continued acceptance of and cooperation with the terms of service, and that when you violate the terms of service and forfeit your not-really-a-right to an account, you also forfeit whatever right you had to continued downloads of your book.

That being said, even if it is legal I don't necessarily think it should be legal and also Amazon would be a fool to do so regardless, if it earns them bad PR.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Heck, I've seen Amazon stop selling eBooks and when they did that, access to purchased eBooks was lost. People lost access to PDF files they bought when they needed to update the DRM and was unable to due to Amazon no longer having them for download. This was back before the Kindle.

True. Just because Amazon is huge, doesn't mean they won't ever shut down. They've done it before, they could do it again. Anyone could.
ALWAYS BACK UP YOUR BOOKS!


But their current Kindle business is not really the same as their old store, and it is difficult to see Amazon axing the Kindle -- so unless Amazon itself went out of business, it is probably safe.
And how many times have we heard that already?
ALWAYS BACK UP YOUR BOOKS! JUST IN CASE!




@Cinisajoy,
not the same topic.

[Wearever]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I'm pleased that they seem to be putting real thought into this answer. I do wonder whether my question hasn't prompted them to fully consider the question for the first time. (Rather than just reacting to bad publicity, which seems to have been all that happened in 2012.)

I think they are indeed taking your question seriously pdurrant
They are probably going to come out with an official statement on this issue for the first time.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, I don't know.

But I suppose Amazon could legally make the argument that you purchased and downloaded the book, hence it was a valid purchase; that you don't really have a "right" to continued downloads, except through your continued acceptance of and cooperation with the terms of service, and that when you violate the terms of service and forfeit your not-really-a-right to an account, you also forfeit whatever right you had to continued downloads of your book.

That being said, even if it is legal I don't necessarily think it should be legal and also Amazon would be a fool to do so regardless, if it earns them bad PR.

The current situation is that there are no terms of service violations. Amazon is closing accounts based on unpublished rules. Even if Amazon is warning customers first, the customers may not be violating any contract in place when they bought their ebooks. Legally, that might mean that Amazon is unilaterally refusing to provide service that has already been paid for.

I'm guessing that the policy is to be circumspect and hope that affected ex-customers simply go away without trying to regain access to purchased books, but to allow it if the ex-customers ask.

[disconnected]

Amazon’s TOS is pretty appalling. It spells out everything we are allowed, or mostly not allowed, to do with our digital “purchases”. Amazon, on the other hand, at its sole discretion, is allowed to cut off access to our media without notice or recourse.

I don’t imagine that Amazon would actually want to have to explain or defend this position in court, or even to have it publicized in mainstream media, rather than just buried in the TOS fine print.

I suppose that Amazon (along with publishers) assumes that anyone that really cares is taking the obvious steps of stripping DRM and making backups, but they can hardly come right out and say so.

I’m a little surprised that they haven’t prepared some sort of response in advance though. It was always bound to happen at some point that enough people had spent enough money on digital media and then lost it (due to divorce, death of main account-holder, account-closure, etc.) that it would start to attract attention to the whole problem.

So far it seems that Amazon has been busy adding more and more complexity to accounts (user profiles, parental control, family sharing) in an attempt to quell any anxieties that people have about not truly having control of their libraries.

[Josieb1]

As I said at the time the issue is bigger than just ebooks. I was told (in writing) that IF Amazon closed my account I would lose access to my Kindle library and my Audible library, also my Kindle Fires would no longer work at all as they wouldn't be registered any more.

I've still got my account but have taken steps to separate myself from Amazon as much as I can. I had two Fires, one has been sold, and if anything happens to the one I have now I'll never buy another, i'l buy an Android tablet. I also have a Username Audible account totally seperate from my Amazon linked Audible Account.

Not having a published acceptable policy is bad business and the way the deal with customers they threaten is appaling. They want to integrate so much but I don't think it's a good thing for customers.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

I find the wishy washy responses pdurrant has had so far to be disturbing. Are we to believe a company this large, this slick and this dominant in digital retailing has really never considered the implications of closing accounts before now? Seriously?

I am rather surprised that they don't have a policy in place (that they're prepared to publish) after the 2012 incident.

But clearly they do not.

[JSWolf]

Amazon needs to spell out in easy to understand language just what is allowed and what is not allowed so when these messages are sent about too many returns or whatever it is, the customer knows exactly what is going on.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Amazon needs to spell out in easy to understand language just what is allowed and what is not allowed so when these messages are sent about too many returns or whatever it is, the customer knows exactly what is going on.

Please take discussion of Amazon's reasons for closing an account elsewhere.

This thread is for information about what Amazon's policy is once they have actually closed an account.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by disconnected

I’m a little surprised that they haven’t prepared some sort of response in advance though. It was always bound to happen at some point that enough people had spent enough money on digital media and then lost it (due to divorce, death of main account-holder, account-closure, etc.) that it would start to attract attention to the whole problem.

That's a bit of a red herring.

Amazon has nothing to do with heirs not inheriting digital goods, it is an industrywide concept.
Also, I am trying hard to see how divorce fits in at all, but failing.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

As I said at the time the issue is bigger than just ebooks. I was told (in writing) that IF Amazon closed my account I would lose access to my Kindle library and my Audible library, also my Kindle Fires would no longer work at all as they wouldn't be registered any more.

What???

Just because it isn't registered, doesn't mean the device itself fundamentally doesn't work.

Or did they also threaten to blacklist your registered devices?

...

Worst comes to worst, Amazon closes your account, and you sell your Fires once YOU can't use them anymore.
In the meantime, it makes no sense to claim that you had to sell them now or risk, ah, whatever it is you think you were risking?

[pdurrant]

Discussions of potential account closures do not belong here either. Please do not resurrect that thread here.

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

What???

Just because it isn't registered, doesn't mean the device itself fundamentally doesn't work

It didn't occur to me that a Fire would work unregistered.

I sold my HDX 8.9. Fires no longer appeal to me as they once did so I decided to try and at least get some money back for it. I kept the HDX 7.