Sideloading: Own content or "from somewhere else"

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Maybe it's a cultural thing.
But in Germany and most other countries I know is the non-verbal equivalent of calling someone an idiot.
In my book, that's an absolute no-go and I certainly wouldn't thank someone for being out of line.

Well, since I didn't get it, I guess I am an idiot. I call other people idiots all the time (not here) so when I do something stupid I call myself an idiot as well. That's probably why it didn't faze me in the least.

[crane3]

Originally Posted by AnneT

No.
Sideloading just means 'not downloading from the cloud' (nor uploading to the cloud), but loading the file from a computer or a card (or whatever) onto your device. So nothing illegal about that.

From my perspective, "side loading" was a term invented for use with the Kindle or Nook or Sony's devices that are/used-to-be singular purpose, reading books. It was putting ebooks on the ereader device from a different source other than the manufacture's devices' "book store" & displayed by the device's default ereader.

Tablets don't have a "default ereader", yet(?).

For tablets/phones, I would think that all books are side-loaded onto the devices since one also "side-loaded" the ereader(s) as well; the only tablets/phones with original sources are the tablet manufactures who sells books thru there "book store".

For me, "side-loading" did not equate to pirating. Censorship of words have become ridiculous. There is a news website that forbids the word "n*e*g*ro" but I wonder how they would print "United Negro College Fund" in a story; perhaps the UNCF changed its name(?).

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I have both, Kobos and Kindles (and a few others), so I only can quote my "pirate" friends:
a.) When doing batch downloads, it's easiest to download already in the target format. You find way more ePUBS than MOBI or AZW files for download.

Perhaps in English or your country/language. That's totally wrong in Spanish language. So, your experience is totally biased.

Originally Posted by mgmueller

b.) When managing tons of files, it's easiest to do so with an SD card. My friend can give this SD card to his brother or duplicate it right ahead. Connecting a reader and such is way less convenient.

That kind of experience of input is totally lost in mobileread. The only person who download a ton of books, without classifying them, is the person who isn't going to read them.

Originally Posted by mgmueller

The harshest statement was: "Why would anyone buy a Kindle if not for the store?". Personally, I love my Kindles. But I've heard this a few times.

In my country, I know much more people with Kindle than any other ereader, and I still have to listen that comment to a person.

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I guess, Kobo is considered the "underdog" and enjoys some support. Whereas Amazon may be in the same league as Apple (or Microsoft before) = being to powerful...

And, in my country, Amazon is looked at with kind eyes.

Do people pirate? A lot. Do people need a non-kindle device or epub format for doing it? Please, be real.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Mort1997

...I found the apparent main intention of the poll a bit distasteful...

Maybe it's a linguistic thing. I'm not a native speaker and my English is horribly rusty.
But why is a poll, basically asking "are you sideloading purchased stuff" or "are you sideloading ... stuff" distasteful?
And what intention? My intention was to get a feel for the ratio purchased : ...

I left out lots of user groups, for example the ones downloading legit freebies.
But this still doesn't show any intention behind it. Yes, the statistic would look worse than comparing to the whole of users. But this doesn't matter, like every statistic you need the legend/key for it. You can generate whatever statistic you want, if you put it in the correct context.

And leaving out lots of user groups doesn't make it distasteful.
Just for a bit of provocation: If I would ask in a poll: "Did you ever drive drunk?" would this be distasteful as well? The act is distasteful, actually a criminal offense. Bur how can this make a poll about it distasteful?

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

I left out lots of user groups, for example the ones downloading legit freebies.

I thought you said freebies were included in the bought category.

[DiapDealer]

The number of downloads and discussions about bandwidth and potential bandwidth are irrelevant--unless you're assuming that every illegally downloaded book gets sideloaded on a device? And if you are ... WHY are you?

I just sense a lot of convenient "apples and oranges" going on. Illegal download counts (and bandwidth consumed by such) isn't really directly relevant to the number of pirated ebooks being sideloaded on devices, is it? How many downloaded illegal books never make it onto a device? Is it possible that some dabblers download entire pirated collections for a handful of books they ultimately end up keeping/sideloading?


Your "point" seems to be moving around a lot. I can't quite nail it down. I'm just going to assume that the point is: "some people pirate, and some people sideload." It's not very relevant, but it's concise!

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I've arrived late to the discussion but I have a question? Do you equal sideloading to transfer by USB?

That's really a difficult topic, as sidelaoding can mean a lot.
In the context I was aiming for, sideloading could be via Cloud and Calibre server as well.
If I come back to my test group of 10 friends, they use USB and most of them even directly to SD card.
But I wouldn't necessarily limit it to that.

Basically, what I would aim for:
Pirates sideload = don't use any regular store for direct downloads, but get their dubious content "somehow" onto their device. Normally, I wouldn't even care av bout the "get it to their device" aspect. But if I wouldn't focus on that, I would have to focus on the download aspect. And I'm pretty sure, lots of people have pirated stuff bot necessarily load it onto their device. So I wanted to focus on the stuff that's actually kind of used. Not the one laying around on some NAS.
Of course, then I could have asked: "What do you read?".
But this would have been the wrong picture again. A pirate may have 500 illegally obtained books, but only read 2 of them.The 2 would be a totally wrong picture.

Meaning:
Sideloading could be any way to bring your content onto your device, except the native stores.
Yes, you can obtain freebies from that store. But I explicitly wanted to focus on "purchased" vs. "avoided purchase".
A pirate might have as many freebies as a legit user, so this could falsify the picture.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...How many downloaded illegal books never make it onto a device? Is it possible that some dabblers download entire pirated collections for a handful of books they ultimately end up keeping/sideloading?

Absolutely.
That's the sole reason why I brought the sideloading aspect into the equation.
Would I ask about downloads, I'd include the thousands of books laying on some NAS and never making it onto any server.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

...Do people need a non-kindle device or epub format for doing it? Please, be real.

I never said (wrote) that.
We've had this discussion a few pages earlier.
Yes, you can sideload (whatever sideloading means for every one) to a Kinde more or less the same as to a Kobo.
I only gave the example of a few friends. In this small group, Kobos by far have been favored, because of the SD card, which allows for faster and more convenient file transfer and exchangeability of large quantities. And for the ePUB format, which for them (they claim) is easier and more often to find.

I never said, or intended to imply, Kobo mainly would be used by Pirates.
But, based on the tiny bit of statistic, pirates might favor Kobos over Kindles.
(All Athenians...)
Doesn't really matter, pirating on Kindle or Kobo doesn't change the basic premises.
I only wanted to share this anecdotal pice of information, because those few pirates when choosing their reader exclusively had been focusing on the ease and convenience of sideloading and had a 100% tendency towards Kobo respectively against Kindle. Surprisingly enough, there wasn't any other reader mentioned. Personally, I would have guess a "open" reader without link to any bookstore at all, like TX68, would be most convenient for them. But maybe they still want to check the bookstore but then not buy there, but illegally download?

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

..I just sense a lot of convenient "apples and oranges" going on....

Yes, personally I have a clear idea about the amount of illegal downloads.
I'm convinced, it's a huge industry.
I'm pretty sure, it's bigger than prostitution, for example.
In Munich alone, there are at least 3 law firms, solely specialized on "declaration to cease and desist".
I don't know, whether that's the correct English term.
Basically, what happens:
You get a letter from a well known, reputable law firm.
Fox Entertainment for example has an exclusive contract with one of those Munich firms (former client is working there, so I've got some background information).
They state, you've downloaded some content illegally.
They refer to your ISP, but you've got no chance to get that data yourself.
They offer to stop proceedings for a payment of some hundred Euros.
Imagine: A few hundred Euros penalty for a TV episode you could buy from Apple for 2 Euros!
Or even worse: They bring you to court and then it's up to you to prove your innocence...
Highly profitable, of course - either way.
I've seen a report, Fox in the meantime would make 30% of their profits that way.
This only can happen, if there's an enormous amount of pirated stuff circulating.

Any I really would be interested to get some more data about that.
I'de be interested in data about drugs, for example, as well.
But I don't know of any relevant forum for that, to post a poll there.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

I thought you said freebies were included in the bought category.

You can include them there.
But I left them out in my original matrix and didn't put them in a separate category, because I was focusing on the purchased goods.

[Byrdie]

As for .epub being the format favored by pirates, I think that may be a bit of an overstatement. At least if the one site I accidentally wandered onto awhile back is any indication -- just about everything I could see (not being a member there) was in .pdf. So even if I were inclined to give into temptation and download, I wouldn't. Pdfs are a pain to read -- for me anyway -- and an even bigger one to convert.

[BearMountainBooks]

The real issue is that "sideload" doesn't tell you anything about pirating. I buy books from Kobo and I sideload. I get review copies from some authors and I either sideload or mail them to my kindle (either could be called sideload).

Without directly asking about pirating, just calling it sideload tells you nothing at all.

I'm certain the movie pirating (and music) is larger than books.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

..Without directly asking about pirating, just calling it sideload tells you nothing at all...

I definitely have to ask for the sideloading.
The only other option would be: How many books do you have on whatever medium, including thousands of books laying untouched on a NAS?
But this would be entirely wrong. Pirates moving a book to a reader doesn't necessarily mean they'll ever read it. But same applies for legit purchases. I've got a backlog of about 1.500 books easily, all of them legally obtained (all purchased, not a single freebie).
So the books that actually physically are on a reader are the closest I can get about real demand. Yes, pirates may hoard in bigger quantities. But this I can't eliminate from any statistic.
And it's not the real topic. My issue was: What do people have on their readers and from which source? But of course excluding the standard downloaded ones from the respective stores. That's an option only the buyers have, not the pirates, so there's nothing to compare.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

...I'm certain the movie pirating (and music) is larger than books.

Hard to tell.
I'd guess, music downloads have dropped already due to streaming services.
As Apple and others sell less and less MP3s due to Spotify and the likes, it would make sense to assume a similar trend for illegal downloads. Maybe to some lower extent, if one doesn't pay anyway he'll bother less about alternatives. But there should be some impact already.

Movie pirating probably is bigger, since the entire business is bigger.
But the temptations are the same: US titles released months ahead of their release date overseas.

What I've found interesting:
One of my friends stated, he wouldn't download movies anymore.
Peer2Peer would be to dangerous and in Newsgroups content would be flooded by Spams in the meantime.
But no one (= copyright lawyers and such) would bother about books, you even could download them from open web sites.