Amazon Defends Pedophile Book - Page 14

LDBoblo · 11-11-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiniree

Poor baby! Deal with it! There are just some things that SHOULD NOT BE DONE!!!!

Like banning books.

mlewis78 · 11-11-2010, 05:29 PM

The book was pulled by Amazon last night. It was pulled before the OP posted here! I haven't read the entire thread, since it goes on and on ad nauseum.

ProfCrash · 11-11-2010, 05:30 PM

"I am so glad I fought this and I'd do it again in a heart beat. "

I don't think anyone here has a problem with people asking that Amazon remove the book. What people are saying is that it is not the governments job to prevent the book from being written or attempt to publish the book.

I would be outraged if the government told the person that they cannot write the book or if the government told Amazon they could not sell the book.

I am fine with Amazon making a business decision to not sell the book. I applaud their decision.

LDBoblo · 11-11-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlewis78

The book was pulled by Amazon last night. It was pulled before the OP posted here! I haven't read the entire thread, since it goes on and on ad nauseum.

Yup, because that's how discussion fora work. Welcome to the internet!

kennyc · 11-11-2010, 05:34 PM

Boundless

The boundless outrage
screams from the forums
from the internet, from Amazon
from Fox News

How could there be a book
A guide to pedophilia!
The outrage the shame. It
Should be banned, It must be banned
the children must be protected at all costs!

Freedom of Speech
or
Freedom of Penetration
Is the cry! String him up.
All writers of such books should die!
Off with their genitals!

Whether tis nobler to
Rage against pedophilia
or to feed the hungry in Africa -
the hungry on our own streets.

Would but this boundless rage
be focused
we might cure aids
feed the hungry, save 3 million
women every a year
from genital mutilation.

Kenny A. Chaffin – 11/11/2010

rogue_red · 11-11-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tammycravit

OK, but here's the thing. I would absolutely agree that children need to be protected from sexual abuse by pedophiles. I doubt you'd get much disagreement there, at least among the members of this board. But, the piece you've left out of your analysis is how banning this book will actually make children any safer.

Do you honestly think there are people out there who feel like they might want to have sex with a child, who say to themselves, "Hmm, I wonder if I can find a book about having sex with children…nope, I didn't find this one book, so never mind."? Do you really, truly, believe that?

Do you seriously think this is the only piece of information out there that advocates sex with children? Do you honestly think that, in the absence of THIS SPECIFIC book, the pedophile will simply give up, instead of looking elsewhere to validate his feelings? For that matter, do you honestly think most pedophiles look for external validation in a society that almost universally condemns them? They abuse children despite a vocal and consistent message that their behavior is immoral and criminal.

So, I guess my question is this: Assuming that you're absolutely correct that children need to be protected from pedophiles, how is banning this book going to do that?

I never mentioned banning of books. Worldwalker mentioned prohibiting books out of caution and then, when referring to children used the phrase "prevent further exposure". I wasn't commenting on the practice of banning books, I was commenting on the availability and advertisement of books that could, in the wrong hands, act as a catalyst.
To protect children we need to create an environment that is safe and nurturing. Now the internet is never going to be 'safe' but we can, and should, work to make it safer. Material that promotes, condones and even encourages sex crimes against children should not be allowed to be publicly advertised or sold.
Porno magazines are sold in sealed plastic bags with modesty stickers on the cover. This is to prevent a child accidently seeing something intended for adults. Amazon needs to employ the same due care. I dont care if Mr Greaves writes a hundred pedo hand books, I dont care if he creates a pedo blog to sell his book. I do care that Amazon promoted material that encouraged sex crimes against children. I do care that this ebook offered a free sample that could have been accessed by a child.(and yes I've already gone a few rounds regarding parental responsibility)
I understand the value of freedom but I am less concerned about my rights than I am concerned about the welbeing and safety of children.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 11-11-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlewis78

The book was pulled by Amazon last night. It was pulled before the OP posted here! I haven't read the entire thread, since it goes on and on ad nauseum.

There's more of it over in the vent and rant thread - it was being discussed there before it got pulled

rogue_red · 11-11-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

"I am so glad I fought this and I'd do it again in a heart beat. "

I don't think anyone here has a problem with people asking that Amazon remove the book. What people are saying is that it is not the governments job to prevent the book from being written or attempt to publish the book.

I would be outraged if the government told the person that they cannot write the book or if the government told Amazon they could not sell the book.

I am fine with Amazon making a business decision to not sell the book. I applaud their decision.

What has the government got to do with anything? I never suggested anything about governmental control and I don't remember seeing posts that support such a radical idea.

kennyc · 11-11-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_red

You sound like my teenage daughter when I've caught her doing something wrong. Rather than deal with the situation at hand she'll point out every other breach of the rules by every other kid.

It's no wonder people sit on their arse and do nothing. Why vote unless I'm voting to change all the bad stuff in the world. Why stop and give a dollar to a homeless person when I can't feed Ethiopia. Why must it be all or nothing.
I can't save the world. Here is what I can do.
When I see something that I believe to be an offense to humanity I will get angry because it is human nature to preserve what we believe to be valuable. I'll put my anger to good use by discussing the situation so I have a clear understanding of the situation, what can or cannot be done to resolve the situation, and to find support, spread the news, and gather support for any proposed action.
Then I will take action. If I have decided the best course of action is petitioning then thats what I will do. If it's offering support to affected people then that's what I will do.

I am so glad I fought this and I'd do it again in a heart beat.

Don't you dare compare me to a clueless save the world teenager.

I'm much older and better looking.

That is not even close to what I said. I'm saying -- quite clearly I think -- that the outrage over this book is nothing NOTHING compared to the real problems in the world and if people would pay attention and get fired up like this over the REAL PROBLEMS in the world we would all be better off.

tiniree · 11-11-2010, 05:42 PM

I do not approve of banning books!

But can you give me one GOOD reason why a book that encourages the harm of children, should even be in print? Ok, people do this. Ok, they think about it. But give me one reason why you honestly think this type of book should EVER be in print?

Why is it there are people out there who truly believe that there is nothing BAD? That everything and everyone has the right under our laws to do whatever, whenever they want and use the Free Speech act, or Freedom of Religion to get away with it.

There are just some things that should not be allowed and I would hope that deep down you would say this is one of them!

Marie

vxf · 11-11-2010, 05:42 PM

Censorship is a slippery slope. I am disgusted by the book and I wish the author all the ill I can think of. Yet, despite that, I still don't think we should censor. To censor means to give someone authority to decide what is morally acceptable and what is not - and while no-one would be worse off after the banning of this trash, where would the line be drawn?

Connallmac · 11-11-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_red

I understand the value of freedom but I am less concerned about my rights than I am concerned about the welbeing and safety of children.

Thank you Mrs. Lovejoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

abookreader · 11-11-2010, 05:49 PM

But the problem is rogue_red - even if it were technically feasible to slap Net Nanny down over the entire internet and make the cyberworld a happy child friendly place, you will never get a consensus from the world on what a happy child friendly place would even look like. Please remember that Amazon is not just middle America US. It is the world.

Any parent or person responsible for a child who is overly worried about them being exposed to objectionable material has no business putting a Kindle with a live internet connection into their hands. Because even if you were to convince Amazon to lock down adult orientated material - there is still a live web browser.

kennyc · 11-11-2010, 05:54 PM

I think I figured it out.....it's all because of the date! Numerology!

11/11/10

Right?

tiniree · 11-11-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Don't you dare compare me to a clueless save the world teenager.

I'm much older and better looking.

That is not even close to what I said. I'm saying -- quite clearly I think -- that the outrage over this book is nothing NOTHING compared to the real problems in the world and if people would pay attention and get fired up like this over the REAL PROBLEMS in the world we would all be better off.

Are you saying that pedophiles are not considered a "real problem" in the world? Because that is the only type of person that the book in question is written for. Considering ALL jails have special sections for these criminals because criminals even consider these people as "sub-human" should tell you its a REAL PROBLEM!

So please, I know there are a lot of problems in the world, but don't tell us this is not a "real problem!"

Marie

11-11-2010, 05:34 PM	#200
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,898 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	*Boundless* The boundless outrage screams from the forums from the internet, from Amazon from Fox News How could there be a book A guide to pedophilia! The outrage the shame. It Should be banned, It must be banned the children must be protected at all costs! Freedom of Speech or Freedom of Penetration Is the cry! String him up. All writers of such books should die! Off with their genitals! Whether tis nobler to Rage against pedophilia or to feed the hungry in Africa - the hungry on our own streets. Would but this boundless rage be focused we might cure aids feed the hungry, save 3 million women every a year from genital mutilation. Kenny A. Chaffin – 11/11/2010 Last edited by kennyc; 11-11-2010 at 05:46 PM.

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11-11-2010, 05:29 PM	#197
mlewis78 Guru Posts: 907 Karma: 6449772 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New York City Device: Kindle Oasis 2 (7"); HDX 8.9"; Ipad2	The book was pulled by Amazon last night. It was pulled before the OP posted here! I haven't read the entire thread, since it goes on and on ad nauseum.

11-11-2010, 05:30 PM	#198
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	"I am so glad I fought this and I'd do it again in a heart beat. " I don't think anyone here has a problem with people asking that Amazon remove the book. What people are saying is that it is not the governments job to prevent the book from being written or attempt to publish the book. I would be outraged if the government told the person that they cannot write the book or if the government told Amazon they could not sell the book. I am fine with Amazon making a business decision to not sell the book. I applaud their decision.

11-11-2010, 05:42 PM	#205
tiniree Zealot Posts: 118 Karma: 64626 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: AZ Device: Nook 1st Gen	I do not approve of banning books! But can you give me one GOOD reason why a book that encourages the harm of children, should even be in print? Ok, people do this. Ok, they think about it. But give me one reason why you honestly think this type of book should EVER be in print? Why is it there are people out there who truly believe that there is nothing BAD? That everything and everyone has the right under our laws to do whatever, whenever they want and use the Free Speech act, or Freedom of Religion to get away with it. There are just some things that should not be allowed and I would hope that deep down you would say this is one of them! Marie

11-11-2010, 05:42 PM	#206
vxf Guru Posts: 944 Karma: 1490348 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Norman, OK Device: Sony PRS 350, 900, 950; Kindles (ALL of them!); Kobo Aura One	Censorship is a slippery slope. I am disgusted by the book and I wish the author all the ill I can think of. Yet, despite that, I still don't think we should censor. To censor means to give someone authority to decide what is morally acceptable and what is not - and while no-one would be worse off after the banning of this trash, where would the line be drawn?

11-11-2010, 05:49 PM	#208
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	But the problem is rogue_red - even if it were technically feasible to slap Net Nanny down over the entire internet and make the cyberworld a happy child friendly place, you will never get a consensus from the world on what a happy child friendly place would even look like. Please remember that Amazon is not just middle America US. It is the world. Any parent or person responsible for a child who is overly worried about them being exposed to objectionable material has no business putting a Kindle with a live internet connection into their hands. Because even if you were to convince Amazon to lock down adult orientated material - there is still a live web browser.

11-11-2010, 05:54 PM	#209
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,898 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	I think I figured it out.....it's all because of the date! Numerology! 11/11/10 Right?

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