Yet another thumb of the nose from publishers

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

You can get MobiPocket format ebooks from a lot of places, and Mobi books without DRM can be side-loaded and read just fine.

If you want to purchase a commercial title for the Kindle, you must either buy from Amazon, or buy from elsewhere and strip the DRM, to enable you to read it. And since Amazon is likely to have a substantially lower price than other vendors, why would the average user want to purchase from other than Amazon?

Amazon wants to sell you ebooks, and be your sole source vendor for purchased titles.
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Dennis

Just a quick note...

There is no such thing as DRM-free AZW. AZW without DRM is Mobipocket. AZW is just Mobipocket with a different PID.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

In essence, you're both right. Amazon acquired the DRM scheme from Mobipocket, but they effectively "rolled their own" by altering it slightly and hosting their own server to handle the kindle DRM. It's not "standard" Mobipocket in the sense that you can't buy Mobipocket DRM content elsewhere and have it work without jumping through some hoops. The PID ranges are different, for one thing.

Okay, I sit partially corrected, and thanks for the update.

My basic point was that Amazon's DRM is intended to lock you into Amazon as the vendor, and whether Amazon wrote their own DRM solution or modified someone else's doesn't affect that premise.
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Dennis

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Okay, it sit partially corrected, and thanks for the update.

My basic point was that Amazon's DRM is intended to lock you into Amazon as the vendor, and whether Amazon wrote their own DRM solution or modified someone else's doesn't affect that premise.
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Dennis

Precisely, you will more than likely ALWAYS have to keep buying Kindles in order to read your large library of books.

You won't be able to switch machines, unless you WANT to learn how to strip the Kindle drm & then convert your library.

Most people are not going to want to do that, therefore they will always be Amazon customers.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Kind of like saying that the UK and US both speak English, but it's not the same language.

It's not! Some things get spelled differently!

(My pet example is Serbo-Croatian. It's the same spoken language, but the Serbs write it in Cyrillic, while the Croats use the Roman alphabet, so they are different languages...)
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Precisely, you will more than likely ALWAYS have to keep buying Kindles in order to read your large library of books.

Or use the Kindle app for whichever platform.

You won't be able to switch machines, unless you WANT to learn how to strip the Kindle drm & then convert your library.

Most people are not going to want to do that, therefore they will always be Amazon customers.

Pretty much.

Back when the Kindle and the Sony Reader were new, there were questions about Sony's long term commitment to the market.

My take back then was that for Amazon, it was about the books, and they wanted to sell you ebooks. For Sony, it was about the readers, because they are a consumer electronics manufacturer, and want to sell you devices. My question back then was whether the reader market was big enough: when you're Sony, you have to sell a lot of devices to make it worth your while to do it, and I wasn't sure the market was large enough. I could see Sony pulling the plug if they didn't see themselves getting the return on investment needed. Fortunately, the market is big enough, and Sony has stayed in and produced additional models, and a number of other vendors are in the ring as well.

I still think Amazon is in it for the books, and was unsurprised when the Kindle app for various platforms began to appear. The Kindle itself was priming the pump, and while I doubt Amazon loses money on the Kindle, and I'm sure they are happy if you buy one, they are just as happy if you buy/read titles from your PC, smartphone, or tablet. It's about the books, and Amazon being your supplier.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most dedicated readers that handle ePub with DRM use ADE. So there's no issue there.

But, if enough publishers stood up to Amazon and said.. we cannot do what we want to do on a Kindle. When you implement ePub, you can have our eBook on your platform, then maybe that might help get Amazon to add ADE/ePub. Or they could say, here is our eBook on the Kindle, but it look not nearly as good as our eBook in ePub. Blame Amazon for that one.

I have been wondering whether Amazon might at some point shift to ePub, simply due to technical limitations in the MobiPocket format. You can do things in ePub you can't do in Mobi.

I don't see it happening any time soon, but I can see publishers issuing ebooks that simply can't be done as Mobi files, and what Amazon's response might be.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

From Amazon


Hey, look.
Low prices == more sales, high prices == less sales.

Yes, but it's a little more complex than that.

I can certainly see Amazon trumpeting this. They get to have their cake and eat it too. When the Agency Pricing model forced them to charge a higher price, they point at the publishers and say "They made us do it!" Now they're saying "Look how sales of books at those prices have dropped since they did!"

And yes, they have. But for the publishers, it's about revenue and profit. So the question is whether the reduced sales for Agency Model priced books is ultimately returning less revenue and profit than the books brought before that was imposed. If they are making more money, overall, at the lower sales but higher prices per sale, guess which way they'll jump?

I don't know whether they are making less under the new pricing scheme or not, but given why I think they went to the new scheme to begin with, I don't see them shifting away from it any time soon.
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Dennis

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Precisely, you will more than likely ALWAYS have to keep buying Kindles in order to read your large library of books.

You won't be able to switch machines, unless you WANT to learn how to strip the Kindle drm & then convert your library.

Most people are not going to want to do that, therefore they will always be Amazon customers.

Hmmm... Couldn't you say the same thing about Apple and their iBooks? And what about B&N and it's unique drm. That flavor hasn't been adopted by many others, has it?

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

Hmmm... Couldn't you say the same thing about Apple and their iBooks? And what about B&N and it's unique drm. That flavor hasn't been adopted by many others, has it?

ABSOLUTELY! It is why I will never buy a Nook or shop at any B&N store. As for Apple, I'm not interested in their expensive machines (any of them) or their store!

All of the books that I have bought MUST be tranferable to any other ereader I might purchase drm'd or not.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I have been wondering whether Amazon might at some point shift to ePub, simply due to technical limitations in the MobiPocket format. You can do things in ePub you can't do in Mobi.

I don't see it happening any time soon, but I can see publishers issuing ebooks that simply can't be done as Mobi files, and what Amazon's response might be.
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Dennis

I would like to see what Amazon would have to say when faced with the limitations in Mobipocket.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

ABSOLUTELY! It is why I will never buy a Nook or shop at any B&N store. As for Apple, I'm not interested in their expensive machines (any of them) or their store!

All of the books that I have bought MUST be transferable to any other ereader I might purchase drm'd or not.

As of now, the DRM for B&N's ePub has been broken and thus, once stripped, they are standard ePub.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would like to see what Amazon would have to say when faced with the limitations in Mobipocket.

So would I, but first they have to face them.

The biggest difference I can see offhand is that ePub is a container, and can contain more than text and images. It's quite possible to create an ePub volume with things like embedded video and audio.

I haven't encountered anyone actually doing that (save for an experimental proof-of-concept or two), but if it starts becoming common, Amazon will have to respond.
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Dennis

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

As of now, the DRM for B&N's ePub has been broken and thus, once stripped, they are standard ePub.

You keep harping on this point, what you refuse to acknowledge is that I and the vast majority of the population who read ebooks do not, nor should we have to go through the bother of stripping drm.

B&N, just like Amazon & Apple want to lock you into shopping with only them. I refuse to be put into such a situation, nor am I going to buy a Nook just so that I can purchase from their store, when my Sony works just fine for Sonys store and other stores.

If these stores don't want to play nice with other readers, then they will have to do without my business.

There are plenty of other stores in which to shop from.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

So would I, but first they have to face them.

The biggest difference I can see offhand is that ePub is a container, and can contain more than text and images. It's quite possible to create an ePub volume with things like embedded video and audio.

I haven't encountered anyone actually doing that (save for an experimental proof-of-concept or two), but if it starts becoming common, Amazon will have to respond.

There are already Kindle books with audio and video available for the iOS app.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

B&N, just like Amazon & Apple want to lock you into shopping with only them.

With Apple devices you can purchase from any vendor, including B&N and Amazon. You are in no way locked in to buying from Apple.