Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by nguirado

...if a person goes to certain schools, works in certain places, and digests certain media, they could very well never hear a conservative opinion articulated by an actual conservative (and not an interpretation by a liberal) in their life.

If by conservative you mean what passes for conservative by the likes of modern AM talk radio hosts; there's no chance of that happening here in the State that was formerly the Capitol of the Confederacy.

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by nguirado

Yes. Leftists tend to celebrate the accomplishments of those whom they classify as "oppressed." If they consider Roma oppressed, then they're the good guys.

You can see this everywhere. The middle east, etc. It can lead to absurdity like when Hollywood directors, tenured academics, and trust fund babies demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people.

It usually as simple as that. It can get complicated, however. I'll stop here so as not to stir up trouble.

I trust you are not outside of AM radio's frequency, or Fox Cable "News".

You seem to "know" of leftists, with a decided dose of unreality that can only come from hearing of them second hand.

[nguirado]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yes, one can dream, can't one?

Most of my friends are liberals. I spend a great deal of time rousing them from their dream-like stupor. They usually don't react with good-natured humor as you did, however. They're usually angry or stunned.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by nguirado

Most of my friends are liberals. I spend a great deal of time rousing them from their dream-like stupor. They usually don't react with good-natured humor as you did, however. They're usually angry or stunned.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...fMyBestFriends

[nguirado]

You seem to "know" of leftists, with a decided dose of unreality that can only come from hearing of them second hand.

No. I was a leftist for a time at a liberal California college. Most of my friends are leftists and most of the people I work with are liberals (I'm a teacher). I think I know liberals inside-out. (My parents are very conservative and I'm an officer in the Army Reserve, in which there are a lot of conservatives.)

I was just reacting to the post. I just wanted to give a dissenting view. Basically, ideological people want the curriculum to tilt in their direction. Nothing the conservatives in Texas want is historically inaccurate- it's a matter of emphasis.

I disagree with liberals, but that's usually because we don't share premises. Sometimes, it's a lack of information, but not usually; information is cheap nowadays.

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by nguirado

No. I was a leftist for a time at a liberal California college. Most of my friends are leftists and most of the people I work with are liberals (I'm a teacher). I think I know liberals inside-out. (My parents are very conservative and I'm an officer in the Army Reserve, in which there are a lot of conservatives.)

I was just reacting to the post. I just wanted to give a dissenting view. Basically, ideological people want the curriculum to tilt in their direction. Nothing the conservatives in Texas want is historically inaccurate- it's a matter of emphasis.

I disagree with liberals, but that's usually because we don't share premises. Sometimes, it's a lack of information, but not usually; information is cheap nowadays.

Interesting, and the liberals you know "demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people".

Is that correct?

I myself know many, many people. Some conservative, some liberal. All of them share a deep concern for the middle class and the poor. But the conservatives I know demonstrate their concern by voting for politicians who have only the interests of the the top 2% wealthiest in the US. When asked why, they reply "They want to keep the gays from marrying", or "They want to keep the Mexicans out", or "I heard that the Obamacare is gonna get my grandma killed", or "I want to protect unborn babies", or "They want to kill small business by denying tax cut extensions for the wealthy".

None of this is true, some of it is blind bigotry, and all of it is fed into their minds by the lobbyists of the top 2% via AM radio and corporate News channels.


And with all that they feed the lie that liberals "demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people".

Very effective to some, it seems.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

And with all that they feed the lie that liberals "demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people".

Donnageddon, I feel that your calling another poster's comment a lie is uncalled for.

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Donnageddon, I feel that your calling another poster's comment a lie is uncalled for.

I was calling the claim a lie. And I stand by that.

If I said Fox News claims conservatives eat babies, and you wished to call that a lie, you would be correct to say so.

Nice try though.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by TGS

Not sure if you would really want them at Summerhill these days. I was for many years an admirer of A.S Neil and then, a few years ago I was in a job that meant that I had to visit Summerhill two at three times a year. Suffice it to say, it's not like it was in Neil's day.

Okay, maybe not today's Summerhill. Fairly moot point; my kids aren't attending school on a different continent. There are probably equally wacky liberal schools near me, but I can't afford them. But as mediocre as the local public schools are, they don't interfere with my own educational choices for my kids, and I don't have to worry that if the kids mention our religion, they'll be harassed or attacked.

I do worry that I'm not teaching them to be paranoid enough about the kinds of bigotries they'll run into if/when they ever leave the "Bay Area bubble."

[Donnageddon]

To make it more emphatically clear GA Russel, the statement liberals "demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people", is a lie!

If you wish to prove me wrong, please proceed.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Donnageddon, I feel that your calling another poster's comment a lie is uncalled for.

using the phrase; "feed the lie" is commonly used in discourse. Donnagedon was not calling anyone a liar

[nguirado]

I don't want the thread to degenerate, but it's not a lie that liberals mock people with whom they disagree regularly. Listen to liberals talk about Tea Party (the disgusting epitaph "teabaggers") people, Sarah Palin, religious conservatives (here, this trumps poverty). There's something else going on besides disagreement. Listen to Bill Maher, Olbermann, Stewart, Howard Dean, Frank Rich, etc.

None of this is true, some of it is blind bigotry, and all of it is fed into their minds by the lobbyists of the top 2% via AM radio and corporate News channels.

This is kind of what I'm talking about. Many liberals equate conservatism with bigotry or naked self-interest (as opposed to the magnanimous trial lawyers). Is that nice? Is that very respectful? Does that demonstrate a knowledge of conservative thought? I acknowledged (and do so every single time) that differences between the Texas board supporters and the California board supporters are sincere and have to do with different starting points. Do liberals usually say that conservatives also want the best for society?

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by nguirado

I don't want the thread to degenerate, but it's not a lie that liberals mock people with whom they disagree regularly. Listen to liberals talk about Tea Party (the disgusting epitaph "teabaggers") people, Sarah Palin, religious conservatives (here, this trumps poverty). There's something else going on besides disagreement. Listen to Bill Maher, Olbermann, Stewart, Howard Dean, Frank Rich, etc.

And conservatives don't?

Well, I'll give you that-- there aren't many conservative comics zinging liberals. Public conservative voices usually rely on red-faced rage and shouted indignation instead of biting humor.

This is kind of what I'm talking about. Many liberals equate conservatism with bigotry or naked self-interest

I know that I do.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by nguirado

Do liberals usually say that conservatives also want the best for society?

I don't know about most liberals, but I freely acknowledge that most conservatives want what they believe is best for society. (A few of them want what's best for *them*, while knowing that it's bad for lots of other people, but that attitude isn't limited to conservatives.)

I think most of them are badly mistaken about what's "best for society," mostly based on huge blind spots about what most of society is like, away from their particular communities. (Hint: $120k/year is not 'poor' by any rational standard.) I think that growing up in relatively wealthy, mostly-White, mostly-Christian, straight-seeming communities allows them to believe that almost everyone (1) shares their values and (2) had the same advantages and opportunities they did. When challenges to those are raised, they are prone to claiming the challenges are individual, isolated anecdotes, not large trends.

I think the problem with the Texas schoolbooks splits into two parts:
1) Texas residents who don't agree with the selection are being forced out of the selection process;
2) The education industry's desire to use the same books nationwide discourages diversity that would better serve individual states or smaller regions.

The details of the TX controversy aren't directly relevant to those points--which also apply to California's schoolbook selection. (Which, however, don't tend to raise national drama, in part because they're not pushing religion. I could take the ID stuff a lot more seriously if Buddhist or Hindu creation theory were ever part of it.)

Claiming there's "too much Islam and Christianity is being insulted" in the new books shows a religious bias on the part of the protesters. Is anyone complaining that "there's too much Judaism and Buddhism is being sidelined and misrepresented?" These are history books; they were not created to push a religious agenda. Nor is any child in Texas likely to turn away from Christianity as a result of a few derogatory phrases in a textbook. (And if they would, I question the strength of their faith, not the accuracy of the book.) This is not about "these books need to be unbiased;" it's about "nothing must come across as insulting to Christianity, no matter how accurate it is."

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by nguirado

it's not a lie that liberals mock people with whom they disagree regularly. Listen to liberals talk about Tea Party (the disgusting epitaph "teabaggers") people, Sarah Palin, religious conservatives (here, this trumps poverty). There's something else going on besides disagreement. Listen to Bill Maher, Olbermann, Stewart, Howard Dean, Frank Rich, etc.

No, it exactly is disagreement with Palin, religious conservatives that is going on. And what does that have to do with the lie that liberals ""demonstrate their solidarity with the oppressed by making fun of the middle class and conservative/religious poor people"? You are trying to defend a lie with a non sequitur.

Originally Posted by nguirado

This is kind of what I'm talking about. Many liberals equate conservatism with bigotry or naked self-interest (as opposed to the magnanimous trial lawyers). Is that nice? Is that very respectful? Does that demonstrate a knowledge of conservative thought? I acknowledged (and do so every single time) that differences between the Texas board supporters and the California board supporters were sincere and had to do with different starting points. Do liberals usually say that conservatives also want the best for society?

It is not nice or respectful, but bigotry and naked self interest do not deserve "nice".

Do liberals usually say that conservatives also want the best for society?

The small minority of people who self identify as "conservative", from my experience, do indeed want the best for society, in their misguided, and delusional fashion.

But the "conservative" politicians they vote for have absolutely no concern for society. It is clear in their every action.