What is piracy?

[Freeshadow]

Robin Hood was Lincoln green;
Giggles 's redder than Lenin

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by maxiart

People like you are funny.

"people like you"? please tell me more about this pigeon hole.

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

But you copy for commercial gain because it saves you money. Stealing a car is the same whether you use the car yourself or sell it. Same with stealing a burger, or a diamond tiara or a book, electrnic or physical.

You are not Robin Hood here. In fact in many cases you are stealing from the poor and trying to encourage others to do the same.

It is like you think you can talk your way into heaven by saying I got other people to do it so it must be okay. Good luck with that there.

Helen

Except the ebook won't simply disappear just because you copy it. Unlike a car, or a burger, or a diamont tiara, or even a physical book.

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

"people like you"? please tell me more about this pigeon hole.

Nothing more needs be said.

[AndrewH]

Giggles, please don't use terms you're not familiar with. You obviously have no @#%^ing clue what "first-sale doctrine" means or any of the principles behind it. One of the key points of first-sale doctrine is that once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner’s interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it. However, the owner of the copy of the book will not be able to make new copies of the book because the first sale doctrine does not limit copyright owner’s reproduction right.

In the near future most of our non-food goods are going to be digital.

I'm not really looking forward to digital cars, cutlery, dishes, houses, clothes, furniture, air conditioners, or dishwashers.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Giggles, please don't use terms you're not familiar with.

You mean he should limit his postings to punctuation?

I'm not really looking forward to digital cars, cutlery, dishes, houses, clothes, furniture, air conditioners, or dishwashers.

We obviously see, Giggleton has a problem understanding the term "digital".
Giggles just because your girlfriend consists of a JPEG and your digits, it doesn't mean she's digital too. The term you are looking for is "imaginary".
And - oh what a coincidence: it also fits your political and economic systems.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

.... One of the key points of first-sale doctrine is that once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner’s interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. ....

Not exactly. If that purchaser takes it upon themselves to copy/distribute the work, then absolutely it is of concern to the copyright holder.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

If I buy a book at $8, and the price is later lower to 99c, who do I contact to get my $7.01 back?

Economics is about the flow of value yes? Or did I just make that up? Either way, without a system for buying and selling, some sort of collective value distribution system would be needed. So that you won't ever buy a book for eight dollars or ninety nine cents, rather the value of the book currently will always automatically be deducted from your network account. lol I wonder how that would work.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

But you copy for commercial gain because it saves you money. Stealing a car is the same whether you use the car yourself or sell it. Same with stealing a burger, or a diamond tiara or a book, electrnic or physical.


Helen

So are we hereafter forbidden to copy?

[Freeshadow]

Economics is also about the determination of value, wherein a lot of factors including time and resources used for creation of the analysed good, transaction costs, subjective value to the purchaser and a lot of other things are taken into account when a serious economic analysis is made.
And that's exactly the point where you fail epically at.
(not as if this would stop you from babbling hot air)
Ah, btw. Have you already released your own magnum opus as a free read, or are we still watching you exercising your hypocrisy muscle here?

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

Economics is also about the determination of value, wherein a lot of factors including time and resources used for creation of the analysed good, transaction costs, subjective value to the purchaser and a lot of other things are taken into account when a serious economic analysis is made.
And that's exactly the point where you fail epically at.
(not as if this would stop you from babbling hot air)
Ah, btw. Have you already released your own magnum opus as a free read, or are we still watching you exercising your hypocrisy muscle here?

Please define serious.

All economic systems are failures if they allow a single individual to starve.

WIP

[Freeshadow]

Serious is: using facts and not saying "what if" every n-th posting unless you are practicing fairy tales writing.

I still wait for a statement about free access to your magnum opus.
Prove that you are willing to live your own ideas.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by maxiart

Do you really argue that it is immoral to even give them away? What would you have people do? Burn them?

Really, she decided on that price herself. It was her conscious decision. Think of it like one of those sales shops do, in which products are sold at significantly cheaper prices. Just because the sale ends doesn't means that you suddenly have to pay the remainder from the full price. No, the product is yours already, and you can very well sell it, unless specifically forbidden.

The point is of course that if it is wrong to give a copy of an ebook to a friend because it will reduce the autors income then it must be wrong to give away the book you bought and if you sell it with profit then it is extra wrong. And if you say it is acceptable would it still be acceptable if you bought 1 million copies that you leter sell for $2 per copy?

To me it seems that it is easy to show that reduced income for author cannot be a reason not to do anything.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by maxiart

Except the ebook won't simply disappear just because you copy it. Unlike a car, or a burger, or a diamont tiara, or even a physical book.



Nothing more needs be said.

There are laws in place in most countries about copying physical goods. Patents, copyright etc. If you make a clone of a product you can and often will be prosecuted. Even brand names or company names are protected by law. If you copy the kellogs name and logo or Apple etc. and use it on your product you would be in court in a very short time. Their name did not disappear either.

Depriving an author of income is the same as not paying an employee morally. Taking a product without paying the asking price is every bit as much stealing in the case of ebooks as it is in a physical product.

Do it if you feel comfortable with it, but there is no possible way to convince me it is the right or honorable thing to do.

Helen

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

Serious is: using facts and not saying "what if" every n-th posting unless you are practicing fairy tales writing.

I still wait for a statement about free access to your magnum opus.
Prove that you are willing to live your own ideas.

Please define facts.

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by tompe

The point is of course that if it is wrong to give a copy of an ebook to a friend because it will reduce the autors income then it must be wrong to give away the book you bought and if you sell it with profit then it is extra wrong. And if you say it is acceptable would it still be acceptable if you bought 1 million copies that you leter sell for $2 per copy?

To me it seems that it is easy to show that reduced income for author cannot be a reason not to do anything.

Wait, in the end are you supporting what Giggleton said, or not? I am not being facetious, I really got a bit lost.

I don't really care if its an ebook or a pbook. If I think a friend will like a book, I will lend it to him, sell it to him, or give it to him as a gift, just like I would with any other good under the sun.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Depriving an author of income is the same as not paying an employee morally. Taking a product without paying the asking price is every bit as much stealing in the case of ebooks as it is in a physical product.

Helen

Reading a book doesn't exactly equate to depriving an author of income though...

At what point in the reading should this income transfer occur? Or should it occur at the point of downloading (KDP Select). Should we be entitled to the first chapter of every book, or the first two chapters? 299 pages out of 300?

Would taking a used bookstore's entire stock without paying and then sending the cover price of each book directly to the author be considered stealing, or good moral practice?