What is piracy?

[Indio777]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The problem here is that there is the easy solution, and the right solution. Sure , its easy to cheat the artist by downloading from a torrent. (That's what you are doing, no matter how you gussy it up). The hard way is to contact the retailer, artist, or publisher and ask for them to make it available. Once the rights holder is made aware of demand for the product, the invisible hand of the market goes to work to deliver the product, not only to you, but to a wider public.
Downloading from a torrent might be an easy private solution, but it has unsatisfactory knock on effects. For one, it might make the rights holder want to turn the security up to 11 by instituting top level encryption. That would make Apprentice Alf's tools as useless as a butter knife against diamond, but it would drive up prices and f### things up for the rest of us.
An even worse effect would be to make it unprofitable for the artist to make new product. You can't download an new Asian movie if the movie maker doesn't make it. You like Asian movies, make it so its worth their while for the movie maker to keep making them.

I try. My problem is that many of the movies I like are not in "print" anywhere. Late 60s and early 70s films made by companies that no longer exist. Most of the actors are no longer around either. Fortunately, for whatever reason, more current Asian films are available in the US unaltered. So I can buy or rent them.

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

no. just read something else. if it does become legitimately available at some future point thats a bonus.

People like you are funny.

[Joshua.P]

Stonetools, again another post that says very little. Bravo.

[Iznogood]

Actually, in Norway, copying for private use is legal. I read a lot of "older" books that are out of print and no longer possible to purchase, not even in used books stores, and have asked on my library if I could be permitted to take a copy. According to the librarians, it didn't matter if it was a new book or an old one, everyone is allowed to copy anything for personal use.

[Joshua.P]

That's how it should be everywhere.

[Lynx-lynx]

Anyone else taken note of Kobo's views on being able to read your books on the device of choice?

"Your Books are Your Books

At Kobo, we believe in Freedom. We believe if you buy a book it should be yours. You are free to read your books on any open device — regardless of brand."

http://www.kobobooks.com/ereaders?__...utmk=149740086

I can't complain about Kobo's view!!

(I'm purposely going to double post this .... in the Copyright and Technology thread as well .... relevant to both Discussions)

[Iznogood]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

That's how it should be everywhere.

I agree. In my opinion (yes, I know that "legal" and "illegal" is not determined based on my opinion, but I think this makes common sence) this is within "fair use" of a book. I use about an hour of my time copying a book I want, but cannot buy anywhere; my time is precious to me so this makes the copy process more expensive than buying the book, but gives the possibility to make a copy where a purchase is physically impossible. It also gives those who cannot afford to buy the book a copy in exchange for some effort. Everyone who can afford the book and where the book is available for purchase would purchase it because it's cheaper than copying it (when you take into account the time it takes to copy it).

This kind of copying is in my opinion not piracy

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The problem here is that there is the easy solution, and the right solution. Sure , its easy to cheat the artist by downloading from a torrent. (That's what you are doing, no matter how you gussy it up). The hard way is to contact the retailer, artist, or publisher and ask for them to make it available. Once the rights holder is made aware of demand for the product, the invisible hand of the market goes to work to deliver the product, not only to you, but to a wider public.
Downloading from a torrent might be an easy private solution, but it has unsatisfactory knock on effects. For one, it might make the rights holder want to turn the security up to 11 by instituting top level encryption. That would make Apprentice Alf's tools as useless as a butter knife against diamond, but it would drive up prices and f### things up for the rest of us.
An even worse effect would be to make it unprofitable for the artist to make new product. You can't download an new Asian movie if the movie maker doesn't make it. You like Asian movies, make it so its worth their while for the movie maker to keep making them.

I've watched a few TV shows through streaming, for the lack of a legal solution to watch it. Can they really blame people for downloading when they don't provide a way to watch the show ? They are aware of the demand (they would need to be blind not to be), they just don't give a damn about people outside the US. They just go complaining about people downloading instead of actually acting to solve the problem by providing us with a way to watch their TV shows.

Lots of people have said they where interested in Hulu, Netflix and such. What have they done : nothing ! Years goes, we're still not allowed there.

They could do something about it, they don't care enough to do it. Sad point is, when TV shows are finally aired in France, most people interested in it have already got it by other means. That lead to "Hey, why would we bother with so few people watching". On that you're right. But is it really our fault ?

Just ask them , they will make things available : you wish ! That's not the way it works.

Books, well, the only books I ever downloaded where Harry potter. Bought the books the day they becomes available.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by maxiart

I sincerely hope you are joking, because otherwise you make not much sense at all. If you buy something, and only afterwards the author decides to raise the price, then its only too bad for the author.

Oh? So are you in favor of first sale rights for digital goods? In the near future most of our non-food goods are going to be digital.

Please keep in mind that if the first sale doctrine applied to digital goods and those millions of Hocking novels which were bought for one dollar are now relisted for five, undercutting the new editions by three, those who purchase the used copies would be stealing bread from the publisher's mouths so to speak. Who really did have to put some work into the new editions. The new editions have undergone a bit more editing than the originals for sure. Which leads us to another question, were we sold a bad product in the first place and should we be able to ask for a refund? Obviously the work was unfinished...

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by norway1456

I agree. In my opinion (yes, I know that "legal" and "illegal" is not determined based on my opinion, but I think this makes common sence) this is within "fair use" of a book. I use about an hour of my time copying a book I want, but cannot buy anywhere; my time is precious to me so this makes the copy process more expensive than buying the book, but gives the possibility to make a copy where a purchase is physically impossible. It also gives those who cannot afford to buy the book a copy in exchange for some effort. Everyone who can afford the book and where the book is available for purchase would purchase it because it's cheaper than copying it (when you take into account the time it takes to copy it).

This kind of copying is in my opinion not piracy

I agree, copying for non-commercial gain is not piracy. In this way we have ended copyright and allowed for the creation of a digital library that can store all ebooks, which is accessible by everyone.

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Oh? So are you in favor of first sale rights for digital goods? In the near future most of our non-food goods are going to be digital.

Please keep in mind that if the first sale doctrine applied to digital goods and those millions of Hocking novels which were bought for one dollar are now relisted for five, undercutting the new editions by three, those who purchase the used copies would be stealing bread from the publisher's mouths so to speak. Who really did have to put some work into the new editions. The new editions have undergone a bit more editing than the originals for sure. Which leads us to another question, were we sold a bad product in the first place and should we be able to ask for a refund? Obviously the work was unfinished...

No, they would not be stealing. The novels were bought fair and square. Its too bad for the publishers, for not investigating enough before producing a new edition of something people can get way cheaper and still legally.

On the other hand, if the new editions are really worthwhile, I have no doubt that at least some people will prefer them, if only because they are more proverbially shinny than the old ones.

P.S: I don't have the slightest idea of what novels you are talking about, but the ideas still remain.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by maxiart

No, they would not be stealing. The novels were bought fair and square. Its too bad for the publishers, for not investigating enough before producing a new edition of something people can get way cheaper and still legally.

On the other hand, if the new editions are really worthwhile, I have no doubt that at least some people will prefer them, if only because they are more proverbially shinny than the old ones.

P.S: I don't have the slightest idea of what novels you are talking about, but the ideas still remain.

Well the novel I was referring to was "Switched" by Amanda Hocking. She posted it on Amazon.com for 99 cents awhile back and then later raised the price to 8 dollars. Would it be right for those who purchased it for 99 cents to resell it? Or give it away?

We can imagine another book which has raised its price in this way, but with no other changes to its content...

[maxiart]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Well the novel I was referring to was "Switched" by Amanda Hocking. She posted it on Amazon.com for 99 cents awhile back and then later raised the price to 8 dollars. Would it be right for those who purchased it for 99 cents to resell it? Or give it away?

We can imagine another book which has raised its price in this way, but with no other changes to its content...

Do you really argue that it is immoral to even give them away? What would you have people do? Burn them?

Really, she decided on that price herself. It was her conscious decision. Think of it like one of those sales shops do, in which products are sold at significantly cheaper prices. Just because the sale ends doesn't means that you suddenly have to pay the remainder from the full price. No, the product is yours already, and you can very well sell it, unless specifically forbidden.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Well the novel I was referring to was "Switched" by Amanda Hocking. She posted it on Amazon.com for 99 cents awhile back and then later raised the price to 8 dollars. Would it be right for those who purchased it for 99 cents to resell it? Or give it away?

If I buy a book at $8, and the price is later lower to 99c, who do I contact to get my $7.01 back?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I agree, copying for non-commercial gain is not piracy. In this way we have ended copyright and allowed for the creation of a digital library that can store all ebooks, which is accessible by everyone.

But you copy for commercial gain because it saves you money. Stealing a car is the same whether you use the car yourself or sell it. Same with stealing a burger, or a diamond tiara or a book, electrnic or physical.

You are not Robin Hood here. In fact in many cases you are stealing from the poor and trying to encourage others to do the same.

It is like you think you can talk your way into heaven by saying I got other people to do it so it must be okay. Good luck with that there.

Helen