Steve Jobs has died

[frahse]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Ralph, I bought an Atari 1040 ST in 1987 as well!

The sales pitch was...Sure, it's plastic. And in five years it will be obsolete. But who knows what you can buy and at what price five years from now!

Men of integrity, men of dubious character, charlatans have all advanced mankind. We typically never build on evil, at least for long, but the truths that anyone might find and present always remain as stepping stones for the next generation.

Plastic, obsolescence! Is man any more permanent except by what he discovers?

[kennyc]

Discovery Channel Tribute to Steve Jobs:

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10...to-steve-jobs/

[cHex]

I think Steve Jobs was an accomplished genius who deserves to be honored. I believe comparing him with guys like Thomas Edison is appropriate. He's left behind a legacy to be proud of. Time Magazine was quite right to put him on their cover 7 times over the course of his life.

So when I read people writing his praises, I nod my head and click to the next thread.

But it is also apparent that many people elevate Jobs to impossible heights. They attribute him with inventing things he did not invent (as though his actual achievements need adding to). They claim things exclusively for Apple products that weren't really exclusive. They act as though it was Apple against the world, as though PC's, Atari (music industry) and Amiga (video industry) weren't better choices for applications of their own. These sorts of comments come across as smug, irritating, and condescending, and probably cause some people to question Job's legitimate accomplishments and Apple's actual distinctions.

When I read something like that, I don't nod and move on--I feel like setting the record straight. For example, when I read this:

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

People forget that, in the mid-80s, you couldn't use a PC for professional DTP or photo editing because nothing but the mac functioned on that artistic level.

...I thought back to 1986 when I started using Ventura Publisher on my 386. (And with a graphical interface as well, thanks to GEM.) I was in Asia, and had been forced to give up my Atari as all anybody used in that country in those days were PC's; if I wanted software, upgrades, repairs, or support, I realized there was only one real choice.

This is hardly a charitable response--ignoring several paragraphs of legitimate praise for Steve Jobs and focusing on one sentence, but that's human nature. It's fair to point out that many negative things would go unsaid if some of the false positive things were also unsaid.

Having made that point, let me reiterate that Steve Jobs will be missed, in all his human condition. I am sorry not only for the loss of his friends, family, and fans, but also for my loss, as one who has never owned an Apple product but has long appreciated its impact on the products I do own, and as one who has enjoyed Jobs' impact in animation to boot.

[llreader]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I think this is a cultural clash. Let me explain.

There is a large group of people who are tool users. The artistic use you describe is purely using the computer as a tool, unchanged by the user of the tool.

There is another, smaller group out there, the tool builders (of which I am one). We use tools, and we create new ones. I specialize in logic structure creation (code), but physical creation is just as important.

Meh, I've been coding since the early 80s as well. Lots of programmers use MacBooks (as they are arguably the best laptops out there) and lots of coders use Windows. I don't buy the "cultural clash" BS. It's just you.

I've used Windows, Linux, BSD whatever bastardized Unix SGI was running (I forget), and OS X. I switched from Linux to OS X when I got tired of the endless tweaking needed to get sound or other things to work. I have other things to do with my time.

I loathe Windows with a passion, as it is neither open nor efficient (it has wasted lots of my time over the years).

OS X is a very nice compromise, you get a system that works for things like syncing your digital cameras (Linux does this well now, but didn't always) and you have a Unix system with everything you could ever possibly want. Now I spend my programming time tweaking Macports and compiling the extra things I need, and I have a stable OS to use for my other activities. I don't have to compile kernel extensions to use a digital camera (I know you don't have to do this anymore), etc. Linux is the best for some things, but only if you want to dedicate you life to it.

Edit: IRIX! SGI used IRIX. Bleah.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by cHex

But it is also apparent that many people elevate Jobs to impossible heights. They attribute him with inventing things he did not invent (as though his actual achievements need adding to). They claim things exclusively for Apple products that weren't really exclusive. They act as though it was Apple against the world, as though PC's, Atari (music industry) and Amiga (video industry) weren't better choices for applications of their own. These sorts of comments come across as smug, irritating, and condescending, and probably cause some people to question Job's legitimate accomplishments and Apple's actual distinctions.

When I read something like that, I don't nod and move on--I feel like setting the record straight. For example, when I read this:



...I thought back to 1986 when I started using Ventura Publisher on my 386. (And with a graphical interface as well, thanks to GEM.) I was in Asia, and had been forced to give up my Atari as all anybody used in that country in those days were PC's; if I wanted software, upgrades, repairs, or support, I realized there was only one real choice.

This is hardly a charitable response--ignoring several paragraphs of legitimate praise for Steve Jobs and focusing on one sentence, but that's human nature. It's fair to point out that many negative things would go unsaid if some of the false positive things were also unsaid.

Having made that point, let me reiterate that Steve Jobs will be missed, in all his human condition. I am sorry not only for the loss of his friends, family, and fans, but also for my loss, as one who has never owned an Apple product but has long appreciated its impact on the products I do own, and as one who has enjoyed Jobs' impact in animation to boot.

And DTP originated in 1984 with Mac... GEM VP came later after Apple/Adobe pioneering on personal computers together with release of (relatively) affordable laser printing... and the others you mention still owe the pioneering of Apple with the Mac... and I am not some Apple worshipper as I had several Atari and Amigas (from the first releases onwards) as I was developing and working on multiple platforms... Steve didn't have to be original in anything, he just had to have the genius to put out products that people found easy to use for what they needed to do without also always needing to be a computer geek...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by cHex

I think Steve Jobs was an accomplished genius who deserves to be honored. I believe comparing him with guys like Thomas Edison is appropriate. He's left behind a legacy to be proud of. Time Magazine was quite right to put him on their cover 7 times over the course of his life.

No way. Edison invented. Jobs reinvented. Two completely different things. Inventing is coming up with new original ideas. Reinventing is taking existing ideas. Jobs was not an inventor.

[Nancy Fulda]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

No way. Edison invented. Jobs reinvented. Two completely different things. Inventing is coming up with new original ideas. Reinventing is taking existing ideas. Jobs was not an inventor.

Agreed. Not an inventor, but a genius all the same.

It takes a unique kind of brillance to see the hidden potential in innovations that are sitting under everyone's nose. Steve Jobs wasn't the only person to visit Xerox or try out the Alto. But he was the man who saw how graphical user interfaces could change personal computing. Without him, GUIs might have remained a passing oddity, like virtual reality or voice-driven computer systems.

[cHex]

Thomas Edison did not invent the lightbulb. However, he developed the first commercially practical lightbulb. He also had a vision for the future that led him to patent ideas others invented. In fact, a large part of Edison's success was in securing and profiting from intellectual property rights. I believe the point of comparison between Edison and Jobs is the creative ability to envision a future possibility that would turn out to be a popular reality. The comparison between Henry Ford and Jobs is also appropriate.

[DiapDealer]

The comparison between Henry Ford and Jobs is also appropriate

That can certainly be taken several ways.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That can certainly be taken several ways.

Ford allegedly had a photo of someone famous on his desk. I forget who it was...

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That can certainly be taken several ways.

Sure, if Jobs were jobs.

BOb

[llreader]

Now Dennis Ritchie has died. :-(

http://arstechnica.com/business/news...e-stand-on.ars

What a terrible month. One of the men who laid the foundations of modern computing.

(To bring this back to the Jobs thread, it is like comparing Isaac Newton and JFK - one made things possible, the other made them happen. In the end, man walked on the moon. They did fundamentally different things, and are remembered in different ways.)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by cHex

The comparison between Henry Ford and Jobs is also appropriate.

Was Jobs also an anti-Semite like Ford was? Ford hated the Jews.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Was Jobs also an anti-Semite like Ford was? Ford hated the Jews.

Seriously JS? Really? Anti-Semite?

I can't even read what you write for a while...and normally I giggle over your trollish ways.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Seriously JS? Really? Anti-Semite?

I can't even read what you write for a while...and normally I giggle over your trollish ways.

Well he's actually correct about Ford.