Authors unhappy with Kindle Unlimited

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Isn't this the most worrisome thing about the Amazon program? How can it be good for authors long-term if Amazon manages to turn readers away from buying?

What I find interesting is that even with book purchasing declining, Amazon sees more "profit" for it in pushing Prime membership than in encouraging book purchases. Although this may bode well for Amazon's business plan, how long will it take for the majority of authors to recognize that Amazon's business plan is not proauthor and take steps to protect themselves?

If down the road the $1.35 looks like the golden egg to authors, then Amazon has decidedly won. First, it will have made authors dependent on it and its largesse (after all, there is nothing that requires Amazon to maintain the size of the pot that results in $1.35 payouts). Second, it will have conditioned authors to be satisfied with its largesse and not turn to other possible avenues.

I also find it interesting that authors who complain about KU still push readers to buy from Amazon. If I were such an author, I think I would be pushing purchases elsewhere.

I don't think it is good long term--or short term for that matter. The only short term benefit (possible) is that 1. you do get paid and 2. discoverability. It's difficult to get noticed amongst 4 million books. It's somewhat easier in a KU program where there are under a million. But that assumes you are able to target the type of reader who wants to read your genre and that you can somehow maximize revenue and retain that reader. Retention of a reader is very important and involves writing more good books, being memorable, being at a price the reader can afford, etc.

I hear what you are saying but most authors appear to be taking the short road. And protecting oneself is very difficult. We can do things like sell from our own blog, help market books elsewhere and BE elsewhere. But I can tell you it takes a long time to get an audience to notice you on other retailers. Kobo has some helpful programs (First is free in series and they also pull out the best sellers and have lists, etc) but B&N does almost nothing. They had a review program for a while, but didn't keep up with it. Believe me. I query them once a quarter asking about opportunities to participate in their blog, on their forums (which they just got rid of) etc. They have come back for 2 years with, "we are working on programs." Smashwords has sales and other programs. All Romance has ad ops. I just wrote SCRIBD to see if they have an associates program and will be helping sponsor a 3 month giveaway to their service.

But it's a long road. And it may not work. We see lots of companies become quite dominant in their sector. It's fairly typical. That one of the reasons that I mention that Amazon is actually not the friend to the reader. Because when they gain too much control, they aren't likely to be nice about it. That doesn't mean that I don't take advantage of good prices or good service. But I do shop around and even if it's easier for me to buy at Amazon, I am happy to spend my money at other places!!!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

On the paperback versions you can also sample random pages from further into the book.

But not if there is no paperback version as there would be for most of the DIY authors.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But not if there is no paperback version as there would be for most of the DIY authors.

Even when there is a paper version, it is highly unlikely that a bookstore let alone library would stock them to browse.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Really? Higher payout for more words in a book? That is a crazy way to fix it - wait until we see copy and pasted full descriptions of each character when they could have been mentioned by name.

It'd be easier to just repeat the same short story over and over again until you reach the desired word count. But at least it would stop people releasing a book a chapter at a time, which is what the current system encourages.

[BearMountainBooks]

I don't find the current samples all that bad--they are on the short side. But even with that, I'm not going to go and browse a few pages in with the paperback. If I don't like the book that much or am unsure, I usually look for a borrow option (if it's indie) or a library option (local or interlibrary loan). I've seen polls done on other forums and by and large most people do not sample. They DOWNLOAD a lot of samples, but there's only a subset who actually read and use that to choose.

I've seen authors get pretty hung up on wanting to know the number of samples downloaded, but like freebies, it doesn't matter. The more important number probably how many people read the freebie or sample. Of course, even if we knew, what would we do about it? Rewrite the book? Okay, okay, if I knew that people were downloading the sample and reading it, but not buying, I'd probably make the sample longer. But for most retailers, that simply isn't an option. Off the top of my head the only place I can specify is Smashwords.

FWIW, I don't put much front matter in mine so that the sample is longer. Most authors didn't-but that is apparently changing because of KU and probably SCRIBD and other subscription models. There is no way I'm going back to add front matter. Good grief. I have my hands full just juggling jobs, current WIP, life and so on. I mean, I do worry/think about sales and how to gain sales, but I can't waste time on piddly things like that. I think authors do it more because they feel somehow cheated by the subscription model, not even because they are trying to trick the reader. But what do I know?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It'd be easier to just repeat the same short story over and over again until you reach the desired word count. But at least it would stop people releasing a book a chapter at a time, which is what the current system encourages.

The chapter model was happening before KU. Ilona Andrews did it with CleanSweep (granted, they were free until the whole thing was bundled into a book). She/He released one chapter per whatever on various blogs. It gave the bloggers visibility, it gave the work visibility, etc. She isn't the only one trying these types of things. Publishers are doing partial releases too (they are selling those from what I can tell). But KU is just going to make that problem worse, at least in the short term.

[pdurrant]

Hmmm.... I can see authors release a work as separate chapters for KU, and as a complete novel not in KU.

[DiapDealer]

Scalzi experimented with the installment novel (and then the complete novel became available) before KU. So did others. I happen to think there are a lot of forces combining to revive/encourage the serial format. KU's possible influence is rather late to that particular game, in my opinion.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Hmmm.... I can see authors release a work as separate chapters for KU, and as a complete novel not in KU.

I believe that is what at least one of the larger midlist authors is doing--not each chapter, but I think he said he broke his book into four parts (at least one of them). I don't know all the details, but that particular book was non-fiction and I don't know if he has tried it with fiction.

I have no idea if Amazon approves of the technique or will move to stop it (that would be fun to try and monitor...if not impossible!)

It's getting interesting...

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

The other ebook subscription services also have a requirement for some of the book to be read before they pay out. The only one that doesn't is the Amazon Prime 1 ebook per month deal. But Scribd and Oyster pay out as a percentage of list price, not some random figure they decide to make up a month later. That's the main gripe about Amazon's subscription. I'm not sure how it could be fixed though, if they paid a percentage people would just bump up their list price. But I do think something that takes word count into consideration is needed, just to stop the pamphleteers.

I agree, taking word count into account is one option. But that might lead to long-winded, padded writing. We have too much of that already. So I don't see an obvious solution. And as JSWolf pointed out earlier, this type of measurement could be open to mistakes so that authors don't receive fair recompense. It doesn't help that Amazon doesn't publicize what stats it takes from readers and how it uses them to calculate payments.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I believe that is what at least one of the larger midlist authors is doing--not each chapter, but I think he said he broke his book into four parts (at least one of them). I don't know all the details, but that particular book was non-fiction and I don't know if he has tried it with fiction.

I have no idea if Amazon approves of the technique or will move to stop it (that would be fun to try and monitor...if not impossible!)

It's getting interesting...

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how authors alter their works to avoid problems in the system, or to take advantage of them.

[Josieb1]

I only know of one author I read that's in KU. For me no subscription service would be worth it until publishers join up, for specific authors or genres it's just not worth it.

I've read a couple of serials by buying the individual books but I don't like the concept.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how authors alter their works to avoid problems in the system, or to take advantage of them.

It will not be worth all the trouble. The ones that split the books up too much will be a great annoyance for readers. In the end it will govern itself - the limit of having 10 books borrowed at a time is detriment enough. If a reader had to use up all 10 slots for one book, how likely is it to do that on a regular basis?

And then this:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I've read a couple of serials by buying the individual books but I don't like the concept.

does not only apply to buyers, but subscribers as well. It is too inconvenient.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

It will not be worth all the trouble. The ones that split the books up too much will be a great annoyance for readers. In the end it will govern itself - the limit of having 10 books borrowed at a time is detriment enough. If a reader had to use up all 10 slots for one book, how likely is it to do that on a regular basis?

And then this:

does not only apply to buyers, but subscribers as well. It is too inconvenient.

I hope you're right, but it must be working for some authors/publishers or they wouldn't keep doing it? I think Ilona Andrews wrote the second book in the Cleansweep series the same way as the first. Shrug. I honestly don't follow a lot of that because I detest serials. That's not to say I won't read the book when it comes out as a book (I might. I'm on the fence but that is because, while I loved the first book, I'm not sure the characters grabbed me enough. She prices below 5 dollars though on her self-publihed...so. There's a good chance I'll buy it!)

I would guess it really depends on the author AND the type of reader. It may also depend on the type of book. I've seen at least one author who writes what she called "episode fiction." There were something like 29 pieces. Her stuff is essentially "soap opera" for the book world. They're they self-contained stories, often different characters, same world, with various ongoing sagas. I believe they tie into each other and somehow (perhaps?) get "resolved" by the end of the episodes.

I know other authors who write novella sized chunks--complete stories, but shorter than your average book at about 25k to 40k. There are 2 to 12 in the "series" and the characters sort of tie-in--you get to read about Sue and Dan and then their friends or the guy who didn't get picked, but was a side character and that sort of thing.

If the right audience can be found and the books are marketed correctly, it might work. I don't know.

[DuckieTigger]

(bold mine)

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I hope you're right, but it must be working for some authors/publishers or they wouldn't keep doing it?
[snip]
I would guess it really depends on the author AND the type of reader.
[snip]
If the right audience can be found and the books are marketed correctly, it might work. I don't know.

KU is relatively new. I am not sure that I want to believe that some (many?) authors get out of their way to cheat the system already. Amazon specifically advertises short reads / stories as being in KU. So if you got some unexpected downtime, and want to fill it with a complete story, you are covered.

The examples you mentioned are new things, and they may have a reason to exist if an audience can be found. For a traditional novel style book there is no need for it to be broken into pieces. Who knows, some readers may put up with the small pieces and are happy that the book is in KU at all. Multiple complete short stories in the same world can work. Imagine what happens when there is more than one author writing in the same series. And maybe KU needs to change to pay out differently based on new categories like novel and novella - with different amounts of borrows to equal the same price (e.g. 1 novel equals 3 novellas in payout).