Fifty Shades - "We Deserve Better"

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

@ Brat
I think what Lirael meant is: There's already enough irresponsible idiots out there with a distorted view on what BDSM is.
The problem how to sort them out, as they are both a danger to the Subs and disastrous to the ourter perception of the lifestyle is afaik an ever persistent topic in the communities.
The last thing needed there is such a blast of misinformation hitting the mark of public focus.

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

"If all it takes is a rock song/movie/videogame..." ?

To other points recently made in this thread, there's already enough of a stigma and a "that's disgusting and twisted" kneejerk reaction from society with regards to BDSM. Books like these don't help public perception, if anything they probably make it worse, and reinforce the incorrect and narrow-minded belief that "normal" people would never willingly engage in these kinds of activities.

I'm not actually disagreeing, I just don't think there is a solution. My concern is the responsibility aspect. Who is responsible? The author for writing it? The publisher for picking it up? The media for making it popular? The reader for reading it?

I've not been involved in BDSM, but I've been involved in other things where misinformation is just as much of a problem, so I'm not completely without perspective here. I was injured by someone who should have damn well known better. And that's all I'm willing to go public with on that subject.

I'm not saying we shouldn't complain when this happens. In fact, hopefully someone else thinking about writing something like this might pay attention and think about these issues, and people thinking about trying something in a book might see a warning and think twice or do more research. I guess I just get touchy when it starts to feel like there's an implication that something should not be written. And no, I'm not saying any of you that I replied to went that far, but I was on my second cup of coffee when I posted earlier so I may have knee-jerked a bit.

I was a bit fired up because of a Facebook acquaintance who wants to ban the book for completely different reasons. She apparently doesn't understand what that actually means here in the US in modern times, and also has no clue what lies between the pages of many other books. As a result, I have one less Facebook friend (doing that felt good, actually) and was worked up before I had enough coffee to think straight and clarify my position.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

I'm not saying we shouldn't complain when this happens. In fact, hopefully someone else thinking about writing something like this might pay attention and think about these issues, and people thinking about trying something in a book might see a warning and think twice or do more research. I guess I just get touchy when it starts to feel like there's an implication that something should not be written. And no, I'm not saying any of you that I replied to went that far, but I was on my second cup of coffee when I posted earlier so I may have knee-jerked a bit.

I think my position is more along the lines that there are some things that didn't deserve to be published and reach an audience... but not because of what the writing is about. I have no problem with a book being controversial, offensive, or covering all sorts of touchy subjects. I don't care what writers choose to write about, if I find it distasteful, I simply don't read it.

I do however have a problem with a poorly written book being published and selling millions, because it offends the part of me that wants to see talented writers succeed, rather than hacks and wannabes who couldn't recognize a three-dimensional character if he or she strangled them.

In the case of 50 Shades, what bothers me is the thought that the uninformed and unthinking masses will come away from it believing that's what BDSM is like, or worse, is supposed to be like. It bothers me for the same reasons I'm bothered when any clearly defined group is portrayed in a distinctly negative manner, with no positive counterpoint to balance it out.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

I'm bothered when any clearly defined group is portrayed in a distinctly negative manner, with no positive counterpoint to balance it out.

You mean like "The Nazis were really well-groomed?"

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by ApK

You mean like "The Nazis were really well-groomed?"

I was so hoping that for once a thread would stay clear of Goodwin's Law...

That's all I'm going to say, since I've been known to derail threads by taking unpopular view points just for the sake of stirring things up, and somehow I doubt that anyone else would enjoy seeing this thread turn into a flame-fest thanks to my defending the virtues of the Third Reich.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

I was so hoping that for once a thread would stay clear of Goodwin's Law...

I'm waiting for a chance to participate in a Kindergarten forum, so I can say "I think we should teach kids almost all the letters in the alphabet, but Nazi."

ApK

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

In the case of 50 Shades, what bothers me is the thought that the uninformed and unthinking masses will come away from it believing that's what BDSM is like, or worse, is supposed to be like. It bothers me for the same reasons I'm bothered when any clearly defined group is portrayed in a distinctly negative manner, with no positive counterpoint to balance it out.

Well, if you believe everything about sex you read about in romance novels, you would think the hymen is located 4 inches into the vagina and that orgasms send individuals hurtling into space.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Well, if you believe everything about sex you read about in romance novels, you would think the hymen is located 4 inches into the vagina and that orgasms send individuals hurtling into space.

You mean they don't?

I tend to assume that the average person is more stupid than average, and not capable of coming to the conclusion that their first encounter with something they knew nothing about, may be giving them the wrong impression of said phenomenon. Or to rephrase, I assume people are stupid.

[Lirael]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Well, if you believe everything about sex you read about in romance novels, you would think the hymen is located 4 inches into the vagina and that orgasms send individuals hurtling into space.

I've met plenty of people who thought the first one was true...

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Lirael

I've met plenty of people who thought the first one was true...

There is also the small matter that most readers of romance novels know what real sex is like, and therefor know very well when it gets unrealistic. If that frame of reference isn't there, and that lack is combined with stupidity...

[QuantumIguana]

Fantasy often is quite unrealistic. People may read "The Story of O", but don't want to live it.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

You mean they don't?

I know, I was so disappointed. I mean, it would have been like an orgasm AND a roller coaster ride in one, but noooo...

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

There is also the small matter that most readers of romance novels know what real sex is like, and therefor know very well when it gets unrealistic. If that frame of reference isn't there, and that lack is combined with stupidity...

To clarify, I started reading romance novels when I was 12. So yeah, no frame of reference. I wasn't stupid, but that would mean not-stupid for 12. Now that I have an 11-yo, I know what that means

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Lirael

I've met plenty of people who thought the first one was true...

There's a vast amount of ignorance about the hymen in general because it isn't something reliably detectable (or, when found, it could have different appearances/shapes). It isn't a proof of virginity either, but let's not tear down too many urban legends at once.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by Lirael

I've met plenty of people who thought the first one was true...

If done the right way, the second one is true.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

If done the right way, the second one is true.

Really? Do they need tethers so they come back down, like a control line plane?