Arizonan restrictive law backfires

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Joebill

I don't see how the Arizona law stops legal immigration. In fact, my one of brothers in-law is Canadian. Instead of a year to, it took over 3 years. All due to illegals.

How is that ?

The Immigration and Naturilization Serivce estimates the number of illegals, and then reduces the numbers of legal immigrants.

And hence its nothing to do with illegals and everything to do with the unrealistic quotas of the INS, and then their unrealistic estimates of the people ignoring their quotas. Right.


dorino - No, I was responding to you - that's how the US police forces "do it in their own way".


kindlekitten - So when study after study says that immigrant crime rates are lower than those of citizens (as they do), you're hence de-facto arguing for greater restrictions on citizens than illegals to achieve your cause. Nice.

And yes, I'm quite aware that you worship that murderer over in Maricopa, but do you really think it's smart of you to advertise it? Oh wait, silly question, that'd involve you not being a xenophobic psychopath.

Your selective, bigoted, denial of 14th amendment rights to people based on the colour of their skin is a clear marker as to your personality. And getting into Canada is trivial. Unless you have a criminal record. Oh look, a surprise!

[dorino]

Ah, DawnFalcon... When I said small scale corruption, I meant the combination of the individual policeman's personal biases and downfalls. Poorly worded, very sorry. English is a bad language.

[DawnFalcon]

Maybe, but I still maintain what I said. Also, taser misuse is far more common among American cops than elsewhere.

[dorino]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Maybe, but I still maintain what I said. Also, taser misuse is far more common among American cops than elsewhere.

Aye, but that's also far more hilarious.

Still not right >.<

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by dorino

Aye, but that's also far more hilarious.

Still not right >.<

Damnit, you made me do a spit take.

[kindlekitten]

oh my such vitriol!

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And hence its nothing to do with illegals and everything to do with the unrealistic quotas of the INS, and then their unrealistic estimates of the people ignoring their quotas. Right.


kindlekitten - So when study after study says that immigrant crime rates are lower than those of citizens (as they do), you're hence de-facto arguing for greater restrictions on citizens than illegals to achieve your cause. Nice.
you constantly do this in discussions, yet never back it up. I would really like to see those statistics, AND the source.

And yes, I'm quite aware that you worship that murderer over in Maricopa,
and again. what murders has he been responsible for? cite please
but do you really think it's smart of you to advertise it? Oh wait, silly question, that'd involve you not being a xenophobic psychopath.

SURPRISE!!! I'm a registered member of the JICARILLA Tribe.
Your selective, bigoted, denial of 14th amendment rights to people based on the colour of their skin is a clear marker as to your personality.
please, know it before you spout it. I'm fairly certain you are referring to, and misunderstanding section I., but here it is anyway
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

And getting into Canada is trivial. Unless you have a criminal record. Oh look, a surprise!
surprise surprise SURPRISE!!!! I DO get into Canada quite often, show horses in Vancouver and ski at Whistler and Sun Peaks. I couldn't WORK there! (read for content keeps everyones blood pressure down

done now?

[kindlekitten]

now that that is over, here is a brief rundown of going through the FBI stats. I checked Phoenix in 2009 (estimated findings), 2007, and 1990. I am comparing Phoenix 2007 and 2009 with Detroit (acknowledged as the most violent city in America), and Philadelphia as it had the closest population. the way the reports were done between 07 and 09 are different enough that I will put 09 on its own for 09. abbreviations will be; Phoenix=PH, Philadelphia=Filly, Detroit=DE. population=pop, murder=mur, rape=R, robbery=rob, assault=ass, property crime=pc, burglary=bur, theft=t, car theft=car

2007: PH Filly DE
pop 1,541,698 1,547,605 4,451,481

mur 160 302 394

R 730 896 341

rob 4,803 9,037 6,575

ass 6,381 8,928 12,398

pc 8,986 55,888 58,302

bur 11,478 10,969 17,767

th 39,643 37,941 20,918

car 9,963 6,978 19,617


Phoenix 1990
pop 2,238,498 (I had to get this stat somewhere else and it might be wrong)

mur 13

R 52

rob 344

ass 675

and those were all the records I could get for that year.

I'm going to leave this for now. if 2009 is REALLY important, I'll put them in later

[happy_terd]

Originally Posted by LCF

H_T the world only gets there, where the people let it go by their deeds and their refrain of deeds.

We are there in my opinion.

[obs20]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

now that that is over, here is a brief rundown of going through the FBI stats. I checked Phoenix in 2009 (estimated findings), 2007, and 1990. I am comparing Phoenix 2007 and 2009 with Detroit (acknowledged as the most violent city in America), and Philadelphia as it had the closest population. the way the reports were done between 07 and 09 are different enough that I will put 09 on its own for 09. abbreviations will be; Phoenix=PH, Philadelphia=Filly, Detroit=DE. population=pop, murder=mur, rape=R, robbery=rob, assault=ass, property crime=pc, burglary=bur, theft=t, car theft=car

2007: PH Filly DE
pop 1,541,698 1,547,605 4,451,481

mur 160 302 394

R 730 896 341

rob 4,803 9,037 6,575

ass 6,381 8,928 12,398

pc 8,986 55,888 58,302

bur 11,478 10,969 17,767

th 39,643 37,941 20,918

car 9,963 6,978 19,617


Phoenix 1990
pop 2,238,498 (I had to get this stat somewhere else and it might be wrong)

mur 13

R 52

rob 344

ass 675

and those were all the records I could get for that year.

I'm going to leave this for now. if 2009 is REALLY important, I'll put them in later

Phoenix population 1990 was 983,403
US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/population/www...0027/tab22.txt

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by obs20

Phoenix population 1990 was 983,403
US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/population/www...0027/tab22.txt

I looked at that, the problem with it is that the crime stats it is more than the city itself. it is all of Maricopa and most of Pimal counties. it is looking at the greater metro area without regard to city or county boundaries

look at this map, and you will see that there are several LARGE cities in the greater Phoenix metropolitan area

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

now that that is over, here is a brief rundown of going through the FBI stats.

I don't understand. What are these crime statistics for?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by clarknova

I don't understand. What are these crime statistics for?

really!? is it that unclear? for Phoenix, Philidelphia and Detroit in 2007 covering murder, rape, robbery, assault, property crime, burglary, theft and car theft. then a stand alone of Phoenix in 1990

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

really!? is it that unclear? for Phoenix, Philidelphia and Detroit in 2007 covering murder, rape, robbery, assault, property crime, burglary, theft and car theft. then a stand alone of Phoenix in 1990

That crime has increased in Phoenix? I'm still not sure the point. Unless science just died and correlation now implies causality. But I don't think so, cuz my 'puter still works (and so does my eeb).

[DawnFalcon]

Yes, or you could look at some peer-reviewed studies.

But that might show you for what you are. It's utterly pathetic that you've simply posted some absolute stats, with only two data points, and told people to read into them your agenda. Try El Passo, San Diego, San Antonio...towns near the Mexican border with very high illegal immigrant populations, and among the very safest places to live. Try some basic intellectual honesty. Arizona has crime issues, period, quite separately from immigration. Correlation does not imply causation, or Arizona would be a heck of a lot safer than it is, because of illegal immigration.

And yes, thanks for boasting about how your ancestry makes your bigotry even less surprising. I've provided plenty of data about how your hero is a murder in the past, you've ignored it. He's cost a lot of money in court settlements, and that figure keeps rising. It's basically impossible to convict a US crooked cop in criminal court unless it's on camera, which is why all those civil settlements are so telling.

And yes, I'm quite aware of the provisions which mean US Citizens with criminal records can visit Canada and yet still have issues getting a visa for a job. Notable you didn't deny...

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by clarknova

That crime has increased in Phoenix? I'm still not sure the point. Unless science just died and correlation now implies causality. But I don't think so, cuz my 'puter still works (and so does my eeb).

it was for the people who kept insisting that it was a FACT that crime had gone down. most folks probably didn't need it, but you know how some are!
eeb!