Arizonan restrictive law backfires

[LCF]

Wait, you don't have National ID cards? Nor State ID cards? (Sorry if it's a stupid question)

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by LCF

Wait, you don't have National ID cards? Nor State ID cards? (Sorry if it's a stupid question)

We only have state issued ID cards. A lot of people are (scarily) pushing for national ID cards (with super-secure RFID tags and everything! HA!).

Which is why underage kids looking to go to a bar usually have an out-of-state license (with the idea being that some local yokel bouncer won't know how to identify forged driver's licenses from other states). Also, it's usually a Hawaiian ID, because underage kids all wish they were from Hawaii.

Edit: the exception being service members, who have Federal ID issued by the military.

[obs20]

Originally Posted by LCF

Wait, you don't have National ID cards? Nor State ID cards? (Sorry if it's a stupid question)

You're right, we don't. We have permits such as library card and driver's licenses, Military and employment ID's but nothing that is existentially just an ID card.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by LCF

And you have to carry them all the time with you by law?

it varies from state to state

Originally Posted by clarknova

Ruh-roh, kk, you just said the magic words, and now I must throw quotes upon thee.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Racial profiling, whether it be against Latinos (as suspected illegal immigrants), Persians/Arabs/Isrealites/etc (as suspected terrorists), or whoever, is un-American and allowable only by a culture of fear. Racial profiling is racist, even though that might not be the intent of those who allow it.

What's even worse, is that laws like this or the "patriot act" do nothing to actually protect anyone, but still erode our civil rights. It's security theater written by fear-mongering politicians who wish to get re-elected. And it's not just the GOP that does this, liberals are plenty guilty as well (see the vast number of liberal fear-mongers that try to ban firearms). It also isn't limited to politicians, as there are plenty of ratings whores in the media that sell fear as "victim's rights advocates."

Honestly, it's time for us as a nation to grow a pair, and stop ((over)re)acting in fear.

I am looking at the FBI crime stats and will have a more rounded out response in a little while

Originally Posted by obs20

Some citizens would have to carry more ID than others. If one is from a state other than Arizona, According to the governor of Arizona a driver's license may not be enough to prove legal immigration status.

Naturally the only people who would be asked for this additional ID would be those who appear foreign.

Yes a national ID card would solve the problem but that's not being discussed here.

yeah we have a national id, it's called a passport.

"enhanced" IDs are available here in WA state and are being pondered in other border states. my folks who live in New Mexico were all in a tizzy last fall as there were reports that they would have to show passports to board planes in New Mexico. that requirement is being pushed back, but they are also beginning to institute the enhanced id there

Originally Posted by LCF

Wait, you don't have National ID cards? Nor State ID cards? (Sorry if it's a stupid question)

just passports, or state driver's licenses, or state id for those who do not drive

[happy_terd]

We should cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by happy_terd

We should cause all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark.

now THAT I totally disagree with. I have no problem with requiring people to carry id, but a permanent mark or chip of any kind is going overboard. IMHO

[recluse]

clatknova, I'm still waiting for that apology.
You made a personal attack on me over a joke post that didn't concern you.
Time to act like an adult and apologize.

[LCF]

All said above (about ID cards) makes the whole situation much more difficult to handle, than I saw it before. I guess well protected ID cards for all citizens of Arizona and equally well protected temporal ID cards for immigrants (as only police-valid ID) is out of the question?

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by recluse

I expect an apology for the extremely nasty tone and insinuation in your response.

While I do stand firm on my feelings of the "race card" phrase (I wish people would think of what they imply with the use of that terminology), you're totally right.

I sincerely apologize for overtly implying you were a redneck bigot. It was a completely libelous and douche-bag move on my part, especially since I don't know you from Adam. I have already had to censor myself in this thread once, and should have exercised better self control.

Mea culpa.

[LCF]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

now THAT I totally disagree with. I have no problem with requiring people to carry id, but a permanent mark or chip of any kind is going overboard. IMHO

I think he's quoting the Bible (except for the buy/sell part)

[obs20]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it varies from state to state

yeah we have a national id, it's called a passport.

You're right but they're only mandatory for foreign travel, and only a small percentage of Americans (27%) bother to get them.

[happy_terd]

Originally Posted by LCF

I think he's quoting the Bible (except for the buy/sell part)

Actually that part is in there also. I was being facetious...kind of. I think it may come to that one day.




“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:16-17

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by LCF

All said above (about ID cards) makes the whole situation much more difficult to handle, than I saw it before. I guess well protected ID cards for all citizens of Arizona and equally well protected temporal ID cards for immigrants (as only police-valid ID) is out of the question?

no it's not. it is very doable

Originally Posted by LCF

I think he's quoting the Bible (except for the buy/sell part)

o. i. c.

[LCF]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

no it's not. it is very doable

Great! That would be my first step in aiding police forces in the "who the hell are you" problem.

H_T the world only gets there, where the people let it go by their deeds and their refrain of deeds.

[dorino]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

dorino - Yes, your way seems to involve a lot of shooting dogs and drugs busts with SWAT teams in the middle of the night. No offence.

But the right sort of end result involves not setting restrictive caps on *temporary* VISA's, because a certain amount of people will come anyway. The only question is if you're going to see proper tax from them, and if they go back home at the end.

I... what? Do you have me confused with another poster? D: