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Old 09-29-2015, 06:12 AM   #151
Terisa de morgan
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Originally Posted by JoHunt View Post
Which is about the only way they can respond.

Josie, what type of remedy are looking for? To be blunt, Amazon accepts refunds for most any reason, so you giving a detailed explanation why you returned each item will probably fall on deaf ears.

You've received a notice for the past two years about excessive refunds - no one at Amazon can change your refund ratio so it falls below Amazon averages.

I'm just trying to understand exactly what you want Amazon to do - perhaps we can come up with some ideas to reduce the stress this is causing you.
For a "small" POV they could, at least, change the message in this part:

Quote:
If you received this message in error or would like to clarify the order activity, please contact us directly at cis@amazon.co.uk.
As no response is going to be sent. Perhaps it doesn't look a lot, but it's a clear lie for me....
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:27 AM   #152
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Three responses have been sent by Amazon, including this:

Quote:
We appreciate your efforts to ensure that your buying activities are in compliance with our policies. We would like to inform you that it has been noted and will be taken into consideration in the future.
I'm just trying to figure out what more Josie wants Amazon to do. Obviously Amazon cannot change its records regarding past transactions.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:56 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by JoHunt View Post
Which is about the only way they can respond.

Josie, what type of remedy are looking for? To be blunt, Amazon accepts refunds for most any reason, so you giving a detailed explanation why you returned each item will probably fall on deaf ears.

You've received a notice for the past two years about excessive refunds - no one at Amazon can change your refund ratio so it falls below Amazon averages.

I'm just trying to understand exactly what you want Amazon to do - perhaps we can come up with some ideas to reduce the stress this is causing you.
I want Amazon to tell me why we fall into this category. I don't actually think that's a lot to ask. Yes we've given detailed return reasons, we don't return on a whim, it's time consuming, expensive and awkward for us. I don't live in a post office.

To put it blunt they want us to pay for Prime but not order anything. I need to know if it's safe to pay Audible £110 upfront in a few weeks time. It's like building a house then discovering the foundations are in an Earthquake zone.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:31 AM   #154
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I think you've done what you can and should start trying to let it go. I also think you can go back to using Amazon "normally," with one exception. If now that you've looked at your purchases, it's the tablet covers/cases that seem to be the problem, cut back, or cut out, ordering them. Especially the brand that is problematic, no matter how much you like them (and seriously, why give your business to a company with shoddy quality control? As you say, returns are a nuisance at best. Ultimately, covers are fungible.)

Yes, it stinks, particularly since you pay for Prime. But given the situation, isn't that the best option for you?
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:20 AM   #155
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I agree with your basic idea.

But in addition to that, I think the guidelines would lead to bad publicity due to sheer complexity.

If I was making the cutoffs, one big goal would be to limit shipping costs. So if someone returned a very heavy, relatively low priced item, the weighting would be high:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagg-Complet...words=dog+food

But if I returned an eBook five minutes after purchase, that might hardly count.

Something that has to be shipped, but is light, such as a computer chip, would count somewhere in the middle.

I'd also consider if shipping was free, if the item was returned with packaging intact, and whether the scenario required Amazon to pay return postage.

Then there's the return rate for the item purchased. If sized clothing has a very high return rate, and the customer only buys clothes, a higher return rate is going to be acceptable.

Then there's the question of whether the cutoff would be the same in every country. From a business standpoint, as a loyal Amazon middle manager, I'd be more strict if the shipping costs in that country are high. But if it ever got out, that, oh, say, Josieb1 got hit because of shopping while British, I don't think that would go over too well.
How are these statistics collected? On one hand, they must be automatically generated (# of returns, $$$ value, etc), but regarding whether the item is (truly) faulty, returned in good condition or in sealed packaging, etc), this stuff is presumably performed in mass volume by minimum-wage worker drones whose pee-breaks are monitored and have utterly no investment in being professional. So it's pot-luck how returns are classified.
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:25 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josieb1 View Post
I want Amazon to tell me why we fall into this category. I don't actually think that's a lot to ask.
Several people, myself included, tried to explain that it *is* lot to ask.
The reason is: if they started to give explanation then the crooks would quickly learn how much they can abuse the return system before running into a trouble.

There ARE some very unscrupulous people that are gaming the system. Some of those view Amazon as a rental, others do not realize that it is not OK to order four different models of e-ink reader with the intention of "having a look" and then returning three they do not like. Some people even do not want to cheat, they are simply too picky and are costing Amazon too much money.

I personally do not think you belong to any of those categories, but I do not have enough info to be a fair judge.

There is another thing you have to take into account. The customer support employee that is communicating with you has a strict quota of "incidents" [or whatever they are called at their corner of the world] to solve per hour. That means they are simply unable to pore over your purchasing history judging carefully how justified your returns were.
Your account most probably got flagged by some very complex algorithm that is constantly being tweaked, so they can identify "unprofitable" customers. I think that there is high chance that the rank-and-file employees working in CS have absolutely no idea why exactly you got flagged as a problematic customer. If I was a high ranking manager at Amazon I would make sure that the precise algorithm would be known only to a small handful of insiders.
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Old 09-29-2015, 09:36 AM   #157
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I want to be treated like a person
I want someone to say 'actually we understand your returns you've done nothing wrong
I want an apology

I wish I'd never bought the Kindle Fires.
I wish I'd never signed up to Prime
And I wish amazon didn't own Audible

And I wish there was an alternative to the whole Eco system they've created. I feel like the fly caught in a spiders web desperately trying to figure out a way out of their web without cutting off my nose to spite my face.
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:42 AM   #158
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Hubby sent another email (I've been at work). Their reply is getting more hostile and threatening. The letter now says

Further problems will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to determine if additional action is necessary.
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:00 AM   #159
Bilbo1967
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:13 AM   #160
Barbara1955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josieb1 View Post
I want to be treated like a person
I want someone to say 'actually we understand your returns you've done nothing wrong
I want an apology

I wish I'd never bought the Kindle Fires.
I wish I'd never signed up to Prime
And I wish amazon didn't own Audible

And I wish there was an alternative to the whole Eco system they've created. I feel like the fly caught in a spiders web desperately trying to figure out a way out of their web without cutting off my nose to spite my face.
Stop your Audible Membership.... you can still listen to them. When the time comes to re-new Prime Don't. Enjoy the ebooks you have & the Audibles. Don't buy anything for a while. Say 6 months or more. What you cant/don't buy you wont have any reason to return Stop contacting them... I hope they get back to you but nagging is not helping just making them mad. Not helping your stress either.
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:00 PM   #161
Josieb1
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Originally Posted by Katie1 View Post
Stop your Audible Membership.... you can still listen to them. When the time comes to re-new Prime Don't. Enjoy the ebooks you have & the Audibles. Don't buy anything for a while. Say 6 months or more. What you cant/don't buy you wont have any reason to return Stop contacting them... I hope they get back to you but nagging is not helping just making them mad. Not helping your stress either.
Audible renewal is due in early November. A few books I would like will be released after that date so that would be cutting off my nose to spite my face, I currently have a 24 a year annual membership but I am certainly reluctant to renew. I might just cancel a few days before (I still have 4 credits to use) and just build up a wish list.

Prime will definitely not be renewed. I won't close it early though (its March) as I don't know if that would trigger a refund, which under the circumstances would not be good.

I am seriously thinking of selling my two HDX's just get what I can for them and moving on. I like the Voyage but I won't sell it yet, see how often I pick it up now I'm moving over to the Kobo Glo HD as my main ereader. I buy more ebooks at Kobo now anyway. Hubby is the one that only buys his books from Amazon. The HD6 is his too.

The two Fire sticks can be written off.

I don't really have any way of expressing how I feel now that would be allowed on a forum post.

Ohh the cases (i've bought two) for the Glo have come from ebay.
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:06 PM   #162
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Quote:
Don't buy anything for a while.
That would be my advice, too I've been an Amazon customer for about 15 years but I've never been tempted to get sucked into this whole eco-system business. There are always alternatives.

When I want/need my books to be read aloud, Android has many epub reader apps which will happily use TTS for all my epubs not just the ones where somebody else has decided it's 'allowed'. There's no way on earth any company is going to convince me I need to own the same book in both text and audio format. Admitted TTS is not as good as having the book performed by a trained voice actor, but for my purposes it gets the job done. (This is not to say I think audiobooks are a waste of money because they were an absolute godsend to my poor Mum who was registered blind for the last 10 years of her life. The local library offered a free postal audiobook service for her.)

For TV and radio programmes there's the BBC iPlayer free for all UK license-fee payers. Also, if you're already paying through the nose to be a SkyTV subscriber then why not take advantage (for no extra cost) of their excellent Catch-up service, box sets, films and their mobile apps for on-the-go watching.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:21 PM   #163
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I'd send them one further reply to state you are sorry that your return rate has been high due to various issues, but as someone who has quite heavily invested in the Amazon ecosystem with Fire tablets, TV sticks, Kindle ereaders, Audible and Prime membership, you are now very worried about your account and continued ability to access and add content to them all. So therefore you think it will be wise not to renew any of your subscriptions when they expire and limit what you buy from Amazon as you are worried about buying something that might need returned and consequently having your account suspended. You appreciate their replies to your emails but they haven't given you any reassurance and have only made you more worried.

No need cut your ties completely (like you say its a bit like cutting your nose to spite your face). Keep your tablets, Voyage etc, continue to use them as normal until such time as you want to upgrade, but obviously look at other options when you do. Your hubby can continue to buy his ebooks from them, but at the same time, make sure he looks at prices elsewhere and only buy if Amazon is cheaper.
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:09 PM   #164
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I'm sorry for your situation and the stress it is causing. I understand not wanting to lose the ability to continue in the Amazon ecosystem. I buy a ton of things from Amazon (the first thing a search for an item online does is bring up Amazon) but have returned very little. The exception has been Kindles. I have returned 2 or 3 of those as I'm picky with screens and didn't like the yellow tint on the Voyage. They have been great about the returns, but my answer to the any potential problem is after returning one Kindle, I buy the next from another source - Best Buy in the US. Best Buy apparently has a limit on returns also before black balling someone, but I have never pushed my luck there either. I never buy items just to try them but if the item doesn't meet my standards I return it and think that should be acceptable. I think the best thing you can do is just limit buying things on Amazon for awhile and limit things to those not likely to be defective. I think a letter to Jeff Bezos is in order - can't hurt. And I wouldn't worry about Amazon doing anything to your account as it sounds like just a warning. Good luck.
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:47 PM   #165
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If I were Josie, I'd just unsubscribe from any service and unDRM any content I own*, and then just continue as normal, with two exceptions:

1. Only buy things you'll probably not return. If you might require a return, buy items at different stores if at all possible.
2. At once UnDRM any content you buy, and if you can't, don't buy it.

That way, you will always be independent of the seller. Hey... wait. That's already my own modus operandi

The big catch is that you can't use any services and then depend on them.

(* I would go as far as re-recording audiobooks using the mentioned Virtual Audio Cable if need be, though I have also found software that can remove the Audible DRM and convert to MP3 in one go. Find and use this at your own risk. I have not downloaded or tested anything, as I don't do audiobooks.)

Last edited by Katsunami; 09-29-2015 at 03:54 PM.
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