Take-off, Landing, and Your Ereader -- A Poll

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by K. Molen

Oh, and slightly off-topic, on my last visit to London my cabbie from the airport told me it was now illegal to talk and drive. Is that just a local London rule or did they do away with it?

It's illegal to talk into a mobile phone whilst driving (unless it is 'hands free'). Maybe that's what he meant? Or maybe he just didn't want to talk to you

[ProfCrash]

I think several of us have. There are laws that are immoral and should be broken. Jim Crow laws in the US. Anti-Semetic laws in Germany and German occupied countries. Slavery laws across the globe (even in the UK).

It is as silly to equate people who are reading with their e-readers on a plane during takeoff with the folks who were brave enough to disobey the laws above as it is to equate people who read with their e-readers on a plane during take off with people who kill someone for running a read light. They are not equivalent situations and should not be treated as such.

Just because in your mind the law is black or white does not mean that it is the case for other folks. I am thrilled that there are people who are willing to break the law when it is the morally correct thing to do. Because of them I live in a more free and fair society.

I am glad that there are punishments for people who break the law at any level. I have never fought a speeding ticket, I have always flat out admitted to speeding when the cop pulls me over. I know I was in the wrong so I accept my punishment. If I am asked directly by a Flight Attendant or another passenger to put away my e-reader, I do so. But more often then not I speed without getting a fine and I can read on my e-reader without being asked to turn it off outside of the general announcement.

I have yet to kill anyone while driving and I have yet to cause an airplane to crash. I am more concerned that I could hurt someone while speeding then reading during takeoff which is why I pay attention when driving so I can change my behavior if I need to.

[K. Molen]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

It's illegal to talk into a mobile phone whilst driving (unless it is 'hands free'). Maybe that's what he meant? Or maybe he just didn't want to talk to you

That's what I meant too. I guess I should've been more clear.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by K. Molen

That's what I meant too. I guess I should've been more clear.

Yes, that's illegal unless, as I have, it's a 'hands free' set up.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It shows that wrist-watches and pacemakers are not a problem, certainly. I guess that the fundamental issue is that the airline cannot know what sort of electronic device a passenger may bring on to the aircraft, and there may well be some which could conceivably pose a hazard to avionic systems. The only practical solution, therefore, is to enforce a "don't use electronics during take-off and landing" rule. The irritating thing is that so many people seem to consider themselves "above the law" and think that the rules don't apply to them. Really, don't you think that a public announcement should be sufficient here, rather than the cabin crew having to tell everyone individually to obey it?

If the airlines started to really check to make sure the devices were off & fined all the self-centered jerks $500.00 per incident, they would get over themselves real quick and start obeying the instructions!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

If the airlines started to really check to make sure the devices were off & fined all the self-centered jerks $500.00 per incident, they would get over themselves real quick and start obeying the instructions!

Ever wonder why they don't?

[plib]

I'm shocked, shocked to find there are scofflaws in here!

Disregarding FAA rules will inevitably lead to vehicular homicide, widespread burglary and larceny, violent and unsafe streets and digital media piracy. I do hope they can see their way to obeying all laws passed by competent legislators who are obviously far better equipped to decide such matters. They might start here:

British laws:

# 1. It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament (27%)

# 2. It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British king or queen's image upside-down (7%)

# 3. It is illegal for a woman to be topless in Liverpool except as a clerk in a tropical fish store (6%)

# 4. Eating mince pies on Christmas Day is banned(5%)

# 5. If someone knocks on your door in Scotland and requires the use of your toilet, you are required to let them enter (4%)

# 6. In the UK a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman's helmet (4%)

# 7. The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the property of the King, and the tail of the Queen (3.5%)

# 8. It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing (3%)

# 9. It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of armour

# 10. It is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls of York, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow (2%)


Foreign laws:

# 1. In Ohio, it is illegal to get a fish drunk (9%)

# 2. In Indonesia, the penalty for masturbation is decapitation (8%)

# 3. A male doctor in Bahrain can only examine the genitals of a woman in the reflection of a mirror (7%)

# 4. In Switzerland, a man may not relieve himself standing up after 10pm (6%)

# 5. It is illegal to be blindfolded while driving a vehicle in Alabama (6%)

# 6. In Florida, unmarried women who parachute on a Sunday could be jailed (6%)

# 7. Women in Vermont must obtain written permission from their husbands to wear false teeth (6%)

# 8. In Milan, it is a legal requirement to smile at all times, except during funerals or hospital visits (5%)

# 9. There is no age of consent in Japan (5%)

# 10. In France, it is illegal to name a pig Napoleon (4%)

(Maybe the pure of heart, law abiding citizens could help convert them when they've finished polishing their halos?)

[ApK]

What would the tail of the Queen do with a whale head?

[plib]

Originally Posted by ApK

What would the tail of the Queen do with a whale head?

I think that question might come under the heading of lèse-majesté. Or possibly "You don't have the need to know"

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by plib

British laws:

# 1. It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament (27%)

# 9. It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of armour

I wonder, is it illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament whilst wearing a suit of armour?

I saw a show recently where the host stated that because of all the laws on the books, everyone is a lawbreaker. Not only is it impossible to know them all, but some are so ridiculous that they are violated every day.

Somewhere it's a law that anyone driving a horseless carriage must have a person walking in front with a lantern announcing their presence. I'm pretty sure I've violated that one.

Just for clarity, the United States is a republic not a democracy. And the FAA, and other government agencies, write regulations based on law, not laws. The U.S. Congress passes laws.

[ProfCrash]

Heck, in one state in the US it is illegal to swear in front of children. It was actually enforced when a guy fell out of his canoe and swore in the vicinity of children. He fought it. I don't know if he won or lost but I do think that the law was repealed.

[heeby]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

As you can see from the OP, it won't be the law much longer. When all the expert now come out in favor of doing away with these restrictions I don't feel obligated to abide by them anymore.

A few questions Harry, what will you do when removing DRM becomes illegal in the UK? Will you stop doing it? If you had lived in the US during the prohibition era, would you never have had a drink for 14 years?

Sounds like he will dutifully report any and all he sees doing it. That attitude would fit in perfectly in Cold War Soviet states.

Harry, I cannot believe you would honestly tattle tale and make such a big deal out of it. You do know people generally despise people who behave like that don't you?

[heeby]

Originally Posted by K. Molen

This is exactly what I do too.

Yes, rules are rules and all that, but I frequently break rules I find to be unreasonable. I exceed the speed limit with my car, I jaywalk when there are no cars around, I liberate my books from DRM, and yes, I read my Kindle during take-off.

I'd rather deal with any punishment the powers that be may throw my way than to live my life with the frustration that'd accompany following any and all rules blindly.

I do as well and think it is amusing how many people get indignant about this. And apparently some are claiming they "report" people for violating rules. My god.

Consumer electronics post no risk at all to the aircraft. But like many urban legends many people believe everything they are told and do everything they are told to do. I will not follow stupid rules any more than I have to in order to not cause myself more hassle. I mind my own business as well unless someone is TRULY harming another.

[piperclassique]

I do the same for takeoff and landing as for the rest of the flight. Off and in the flight bag for the kindle, the ipad is strapped to my knee with the gps running. Mind you, in a piper cub the ipad represents 100 % of the available electronics. I don't actually read while flying, I look out of the window.....

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you really think that it's necessary for the flight attendant to tell you personally to turn off your camera? Does the general announcement that electronic devices must not be used not apply to you for some reason?

Actually, there was only a mention over the intercom that phones and laptops had to be turned off. And I didn't have a phone nor a laptop. It was a photo camera. And not a phone with a photo camera, but a dedicated one. But it's a small one. Maybe he confused it with a smart phone...

Originally Posted by HarryT

And, if I am sitting near you when you do so, I will press the "Call" button and point out to the cabin crew that you evidently consider yourself to be "above the law". And it IS the law: disobeying an instruction from the cabin crew on an aircraft is a criminal offence.

Well, there will always be people that are holier-than-thou.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you really think that's feasible? Eg, we had a poster earlier in the thread who declared that she was going to use her camera on board the aircraft no matter what the rules said. Many cameras these days contain GPS receivers, to automatically "geotag" each picture with its location. Do you expect cabin crew members to know which camera contains a GPS receiver and which doesn't?

Now you mention GPS, I found out at home that our GPS had not been turned off during the flight... It was sitting in the bottom of my bag, as it had been tracking our drive from my in-law's house to the airport. And our tracks on the airport... And in the plane, it couldn't receive any satellites I had completely forgotten about it by the time we had arrived at the airport...