Will the Amazon Kindle cost US$50? - Page 15

Ravenflight · 09-17-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Something I see missing from the arguments on both sides is the issue of used book sales. I cannot remember the last time I bought a new pback. I see no reason to spend 2x-5x more for a pback when in in a few weeks or a month I can find the same book for 1/2 the price. On sale or at a thrift thrift store is even a bigger savings.

If ebooks are priced between say $4.00 - $5.00US each I will pretty much be willing to spend the extra $1-$2 for them over the used editions I currently buy. This will create an entire new profit center that publishers and retailers have no income from currently. never had a shot at before.

A very good observation. I would also like to add that publishers would be able to sell and make a profit off of books that are out of print. I cannot tell you how many times I go to a bookstore, browse through one of my favorite authors- say Piers Anthony- find a title that looks interesting, only to find it's volume 5 in a series where volume 1 is no longer in print. Now I can go to Amazon and buy a 2nd hand copy for a few dollars- but does the publisher and the author make a profit from that? No.

Right now I am trying to find several Heinlein books that I loved as a child so I can read them to my children- ie The Star Beast. It is no longer in print- I was able to pick up an ex-library copy through Amazon, but did the publisher profit? They could have if they released it as an ebook priced for say 3.00. Some will say that publishers won't make enough money off ebooks priced at the same price as used books- but how much do they make off books that aren't even in print? NOTHING! Next time I see volume 5 of an interesting Piers Anthony series I could buy it knowing that I could find volumes 1-4 cheaply and instantly available- If the publisher had any sense.

Nate the great · 09-17-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenflight

Right now I am trying to find several Heinlein books that I loved as a child so I can read them to my children- ie The Star Beast. It is no longer in print- I was able to pick up an ex-library copy through Amazon, but did the publisher profit? They could have if they released it as an ebook priced for say 3.00. Some will say that publishers won't make enough money off ebooks priced at the same price as used books- but how much do they make off books that aren't even in print? NOTHING! Next time I see volume 5 of an interesting Piers Anthony series I could buy it knowing that I could find volumes 1-4 cheaply and instantly available- If the publisher had any sense.

FYI: Heinlein's work is in the process of being republished right now (in ridiculously overpriced hardbacks). I don't know who the publisher is.

Ravenflight · 09-17-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

FYI: Heinlein's work is in the process of being republished right now (in ridiculously overpriced hardbacks). I don't know who the publisher is.

LOL! The irony is that for Heinlein, I would actually be willing to buy them- but only if they were available as even more ridiculously overpriced Easton Press leatherbound heirloom editions!

igorsk · 09-18-2007, 04:44 AM

Meisha Merlin was going to publish the complete Heinlein. After their closure there were some arrangements made to continue it but I'm rather doubtful of the outcome...
http://www.meishamerlin.com/RobertHe...iaEdition.html

nekokami · 09-18-2007, 10:34 AM

While I regret the fate of Meisha Merlin, I'm inclined to think this doesn't really count as getting Heinlein's work back into print. These would have been intentionally limited editions at very high prices.

We're starting to see a few Heinlein books as legal ebooks. I'm hoping that trend continues.

Ravenflight · 09-18-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

Meisha Merlin was going to publish the complete Heinlein. After their closure there were some arrangements made to continue it but I'm rather doubtful of the outcome...
http://www.meishamerlin.com/RobertHe...iaEdition.html

I know what you mean- I'm not sure if I feel entirely comfortable paying 3500.00 for 46 volumes to a company that has already announced they are going out of business- especially when almost all the volumes haven't even been printed yet. I really wish they had gone with Easton Press for this project.

nekokami · 09-18-2007, 12:36 PM

I couldn't pay this much in any case. I love Heinlein, but I have very nearly all his works anyway. There's a little bit of new content on offer (letters, etc.) that would be nice to have, but the price is way out of reach for me.

JSWolf · 09-18-2007, 12:41 PM

I think the Heinlein books might sell at $200 for all 46 in ebook form. I'd consider it.

nekokami · 09-18-2007, 12:43 PM

At that price, I'd consider it IF the extra content was there. Heinlein ebooks have been available on the darknet for a long time now, so something extra would be needed to get enough people interested, I think.

bowerbird · 09-21-2007, 04:10 PM

the argument that e-books cost publishers
as much to create as p-books makes me smile.

it might be true -- d.r.m. is costly to inject, and
then causes all kinds of tech-support nightmares.
but hey, that's the way of the dinosaur life, isn't it?

because i can assure you that all kinds of people
out here in the wild world of the internet have
absolutely no problem at all making _our_ content
available to the world at a cost that approaches zero.

that would make us the mammals, i guess...

-bowerbird

HarryT · 09-22-2007, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowerbird

because i can assure you that all kinds of people
out here in the wild world of the internet have
absolutely no problem at all making _our_ content
available to the world at a cost that approaches zero.

Obviously criminal scum can upload material at "zero cost" simply because they don't have the costs that honest publishers have. It's not exactly a fair comparison.

Nate the great · 09-22-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Obviously criminal scum can upload material at "zero cost" simply because they don't have the costs that honest publishers have. It's not exactly a fair comparison.

Harry, when you have a stroke, you will be sorely missed.

nekokami · 09-22-2007, 02:19 PM

Um, HarryT, I think bowerbird is talking about self-publishing. (I think.) Which is usually also self-edited, self illustrated (if cover art is provided), self-typeset, self-marketed, etc. Sure, it's cheaper, because people usually don't track their own labor, and often more labor goes into commercial works.

brecklundin · 09-25-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Take a look at Fictionwise - they have lots of books in that price range.

Howdy Harry,

Thanks for the tip. I spent some time over there are their content seems nice. I find the Baen site is also decent. I am still reading on my laptop...now I just need to get off the fence so to speak.

bowerbird · 09-28-2007, 03:31 AM

nekokami said:
> Um, HarryT, I think bowerbird is talking about self-publishing. (I think.)

of course i was. but some people see a criminal behind every corner.
it's an interesting rorschach-blot that tells you a lot about those people.

> Which is usually also self-edited, self illustrated (if cover art is provided),
> self-typeset, self-marketed, etc.

let's start with the last-point -- self-marketing. marketing will be _unnecessary_
in a world where people use collaborative filtering to find needles in the haystack.
in fact, it will be a sign of weakness, something only a truly bad author would do.

next, self-illustrated. lots and lots of stories work just fine without illustrations.
(indeed, some people think stories work _better_ without illustrations, since that
allows each reader to use their own imagination to picture the story as they wish.)
but if a person does want illustrations, it's simple as pie -- in the age of flickr and
photobucket and creative commons licenses -- to find free pictures for your story.

self-typeset: the right tools can now turn a plain-text file into a nicely-typeset book.
> http://z-m-l.com/go/vl3.pl

self-edited: any writer worth their salt knows they need to have their work reviewed
by someone who has editorial skills, from the overview down to the fine copy-editing.
maybe you hire an editor, maybe you find a friend with the skills to do it for nothing,
maybe you put stuff up on a blog and let your earliest readers help you fine-tune it...
however you get the job done is fine. it's not as if the publishers own all the editors.
just like writers will write for free, because that's what they do, _editors_must_edit_.

heck, i did a bunch of copy-editing on a book before it was put into project gutenberg,
for free, just because i thought it was neat that an 80-year-old man (mike moldeven)
wanted to share his story with the world before he passed over into the next plane...
he was willing to give away his book for free, and i was willing to copy-edit it for free.

-bowerbird

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09-18-2007, 04:44 AM	#214
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Meisha Merlin was going to publish the complete Heinlein. After their closure there were some arrangements made to continue it but I'm rather doubtful of the outcome... http://www.meishamerlin.com/RobertHe...iaEdition.html

09-18-2007, 10:34 AM	#215
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	While I regret the fate of Meisha Merlin, I'm inclined to think this doesn't really count as getting Heinlein's work back into print. These would have been intentionally limited editions at very high prices. We're starting to see a few Heinlein books as legal ebooks. I'm hoping that trend continues.

09-18-2007, 12:36 PM	#217
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	I couldn't pay this much in any case. I love Heinlein, but I have very nearly all his works anyway. There's a little bit of new content on offer (letters, etc.) that would be nice to have, but the price is way out of reach for me.

09-18-2007, 12:41 PM	#218
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,756 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I think the Heinlein books might sell at $200 for all 46 in ebook form. I'd consider it.

09-18-2007, 12:43 PM	#219
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	At that price, I'd consider it IF the extra content was there. Heinlein ebooks have been available on the darknet for a long time now, so something extra would be needed to get enough people interested, I think.

09-21-2007, 04:10 PM	#220
bowerbird Banned Posts: 269 Karma: -273 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: los angeles	the argument that e-books cost publishers as much to create as p-books makes me smile. it might be true -- d.r.m. is costly to inject, and then causes all kinds of tech-support nightmares. but hey, that's the way of the dinosaur life, isn't it? because i can assure you that all kinds of people out here in the wild world of the internet have absolutely no problem at all making _our_ content available to the world at a cost that approaches zero. that would make us the mammals, i guess... -bowerbird

09-22-2007, 02:19 PM	#223
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Um, HarryT, I think bowerbird is talking about self-publishing. (I think.) Which is usually also self-edited, self illustrated (if cover art is provided), self-typeset, self-marketed, etc. Sure, it's cheaper, because people usually don't track their own labor, and often more labor goes into commercial works.

09-28-2007, 03:31 AM	#225
bowerbird Banned Posts: 269 Karma: -273 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: los angeles	nekokami said: > Um, HarryT, I think bowerbird is talking about self-publishing. (I think.) of course i was. but some people see a criminal behind every corner. it's an interesting rorschach-blot that tells you a lot about those people. > Which is usually also self-edited, self illustrated (if cover art is provided), > self-typeset, self-marketed, etc. let's start with the last-point -- self-marketing. marketing will be _unnecessary_ in a world where people use collaborative filtering to find needles in the haystack. in fact, it will be a sign of weakness, something only a truly bad author would do. next, self-illustrated. lots and lots of stories work just fine without illustrations. (indeed, some people think stories work _better_ without illustrations, since that allows each reader to use their own imagination to picture the story as they wish.) but if a person does want illustrations, it's simple as pie -- in the age of flickr and photobucket and creative commons licenses -- to find free pictures for your story. self-typeset: the right tools can now turn a plain-text file into a nicely-typeset book. > http://z-m-l.com/go/vl3.pl self-edited: any writer worth their salt knows they need to have their work reviewed by someone who has editorial skills, from the overview down to the fine copy-editing. maybe you hire an editor, maybe you find a friend with the skills to do it for nothing, maybe you put stuff up on a blog and let your earliest readers help you fine-tune it... however you get the job done is fine. it's not as if the publishers own all the editors. just like writers will write for free, because that's what they do, _editors_must_edit_. heck, i did a bunch of copy-editing on a book before it was put into project gutenberg, for free, just because i thought it was neat that an 80-year-old man (mike moldeven) wanted to share his story with the world before he passed over into the next plane... he was willing to give away his book for free, and i was willing to copy-edit it for free. -bowerbird