Sony collections and release 0.7.5 - Page 3

chaley · 07-02-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjomike

That was the gist of my message. Always used Calibre but STILL had an extra bunch of collections after using 0.7.xx. It added "fiction" "HUB" "sf" "SF" when I already had Fiction, Hub, Science Fiction etc.

Although the root cause of the re-creation is gone, I still would like to know where these extra collections came from. The reason I am pursuing this is that I don't want to be surprised by another case of odd behavior.

Back in the bad-old-days, calibre would create collections from metadata found in the books on the device. After that, book-library-matching could (from time to time) add collections for the book's metadata from the library. I haven't yet found an exception to this characterization.

Calibre had to get the tags for the extra collections from somewhere. My guess would have been 'from the books on the device'. However, that is inconsistent with you saying that you used only calibre to manage collections.

I can explain the behavior if two things are true: 1) by "only used calibre", you mean that you did not use Sony SW, and 2) that you manually fixed collections on Calibre's device screen. If these are true, then the tags in the books might not match (and in your case did not match) the collections built by editing on calibre's device view, leading to them being added.

Did I get it right?

To possibly clarify a phrase: when someone says "use calibre to manage collections", I hear "have calibre manage collections, and I will never touch them by hand." That is why turning off the new collections management option also turns off collection editing on the device view.

DoctorOhh · 07-02-2010, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjomike

That was the gist of my message. Always used Calibre but STILL had an extra bunch of collections after using 0.7.xx. It added "fiction" "HUB" "sf" "SF" when I already had Fiction, Hub, Science Fiction etc.

Those tags were obviously in the books metadata on the device when you connected. Not that it matters now, but I am curious did you ever use calibre to manually edit your collections directly on your device?

I'm glad it has all been sorted out.

banjomike · 07-02-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaley

I can explain the behavior if two things are true: 1) by "only used calibre", you mean that you did not use Sony SW, and 2) that you manually fixed collections on Calibre's device screen. If these are true, then the tags in the books might not match (and in your case did not match) the collections built by editing on calibre's device view, leading to them being added.

Did I get it right?

To possibly clarify a phrase: when someone says "use calibre to manage collections", I hear "have calibre manage collections, and I will never touch them by hand." That is why turning off the new collections management option also turns off collection editing on the device view.

The Sony software has never ever been installed. I read enough bad stuff about it that I tried Calibre before even buying my Sony and stuck with Calibre. Yay Calibre.

If by "editing collections" you mean editing the contents of the collections column on the SD card, then no, never did that. I did sometimes delete books from the SD card in Calibre before resending to the SD card. This was because the earliest versions of Calibre (I started with 0.6.6, currently on 0.7.4) seemed to leave me with 2 copies of a book if I changed the tags and then resent the book, so I started to delete and then send.

As things are at the moment I will just wait for things to settle down then sit down and tidy the collections on the card. I don't want to lose my bookmarks so I won't reformat unless I really have to. I wish Calibre could save booksmarks.

I am still totally happy with Calibre.

DoctorOhh · 07-02-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjomike

This was because the earliest versions of Calibre (I started with 0.6.6, currently on 0.7.4) seemed to leave me with 2 copies of a book if I changed the tags and then resent the book, so I started to delete and then send.

Is it possible some of the old duplicates were orphaned and laying around without being associated with any collection?

If yes, 0.7.2 would have found them, used their tags and created collections based on the tags.

banjomike · 07-02-2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwanthny

Is it possible some of the old duplicates were orphaned and laying around without being associated with any collection?

If yes, 0.7.2 would have found them, used their tags and created collections based on the tags.

Not 50 of them!

If that was the case then I should have duplicate books on the Sony. Proper version and formerly orphaned version. When I can get to my Sony I will page through the titles list and see. 47 pages. I'll post here when I've checked.

banjomike · 07-02-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwanthny

Is it possible some of the old duplicates were orphaned and laying around without being associated with any collection?

If yes, 0.7.2 would have found them, used their tags and created collections based on the tags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjomike

Not 50 of them!

If that was the case then I should have duplicate books on the Sony. Proper version and formerly orphaned version. When I can get to my Sony I will page through the titles list and see. 47 pages. I'll post here when I've checked.

Done. I've got 2 more-or-less duplicates but all the collections associated with them are collections I originally had and have more than one book in. If that makes sense. On one I've changed the author, the other I'm not sure about but it is a book I have sent MANY times so it is quite likely I've changed something or forgotten something.

chaley · 07-02-2010, 12:41 PM

Oh well. Looks like it will remain a mystery. Thanks for looking!

itimpi · 07-02-2010, 02:18 PM

I have just sent a series to my PRS-505 and the resuting collection is not in order as had been suggested would be the case. In the Calibre GUI it was in reverse order at the time I sent it, and that is the order showing on the Sony. Previous posts suggested the order in the GUI did not matter - the books would be sorted when they were sent (they were all sent at the same time).

I now need to a test where the books are in random order in thev GUI to see what order they appear in on the Sony.

EDIT: I just a series that was randomly ordered in the GUI to the Sony and that DID end up in order. I will have to look more closely at my original case where it was an exact reverse order in the GUI ending up in reverse order on the Sony.

chaley · 07-02-2010, 04:01 PM

It is possible that collections are not ordered after all.

Collections are indeed sorted when they are first processed. However, when collections are actually added to the device's database, a program construction is used for efficiency that does not guarantee order. As such, the collections could easily end up different.

I will try to fix this in time for the 0.7.7 release.

chaley · 07-02-2010, 05:00 PM

I found a problem.

As I said before, the intent was to sort collections when a book was sent to the collection. The reality was that collections were sorted when at least one book was *added* to the collection. Because of this, resending a book did not reorder the collection unless it was accompanied by at least one new book.

Fixed in next release - 0.7.7.

The python construct problem was never included in a release. And won't be.

itimpi · 07-02-2010, 05:26 PM

My further tests suggest that at the moment if sending multiple books at the same time and the series is already ordered (either ascending or descending) then it is ending being sent 'as is'. I am only mentioning nthat in case some special method is being used to test for sorted that treats both ascdending and descending cases as sorted. I assume that the intent is that it should always be ordered in ascending order?

chaley · 07-02-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itimpi

My further tests suggest that at the moment if sending multiple books at the same time and the series is already ordered (either ascending or descending) then it is ending being sent 'as is'. I am only mentioning nthat in case some special method is being used to test for sorted that treats both ascdending and descending cases as sorted. I assume that the intent is that it should always be ordered in ascending order?

Assuming that all the books being sent are already on the reader, because of the bug (since early beta!) the order of the existing series will be changed to by title, using title sort order. If you delete one of the books in the series from the reader, then resend some or all, they will be ordered in series order. With the fix that was just committed, series order will be used even if a new book is not involved.

Yes, the intent is that series are ordered in ascending order.

markbond1007 · 07-03-2010, 10:01 AM

Many thanks, it could very well do it already, I havent had much chance to update either Calibre or my sony recently but have been keepinh an eye out here, when I saw the thread I posted because it always was a bugbear of mine. I'll try and find some time to update soon and let you know if it works now!

Regards

Mark

JLYates · 07-04-2010, 06:12 PM

I downloaded several books, sent them to my reader (Sony900). They arrived fine.

Then realized that I had not done any of the editing in the meta information area. So, went there and did some.
Then, added some more books and decided to re-edit them all, finding covers for books that didn't have any, putting in descriptions in ones that didn't have any and such.

Have over 100 books, with only around 15 not having descriptions. In calibre they are correct, the way I want them, nice covers, descriptions that help to me know what the book is about. Now, I want to send them to my reader with all the updates. But wasn't sure what to do in the area that they are in my reader with the blank covers. So, tried to resend to the device (reader)

I get back this message:
could not upload the following book(s) to device as no suitable formats were found. Convert the book(s) to a format supported by your device.

Huh? They have already been converted to ePub.

Now what? Do I have to remove the books and start all over again? Why won't it let me redo them, or is there another way? Or did I miss a step?

I went to the selections at the top, where it has author, title and such and rearranged them to Author, Title, Series, Tags, Dates, MB, Published. I could care less about rating and some of the other areas, would like to see genre, but I can do that with tags.

Could have reorganizing the labels have created this problems?

Janette

The books are still all on my Sony 900 reader, just many still without a cover or they have the authors face; such as Tale of Two Cities and many other classics.

tponzo · 07-04-2010, 09:25 PM

I get more confused about collections and meta data w/each new post so am manually managing my collections. What I would like to know is - is there a way to label multiple books with a collection label all at once? Just added my Jane Austen collection (6 books). I want to have them all in the category Fiction - Classics. Can I add this tag to all six books at once or do I need to do each book separately? (all at once is better, saves time and less chance of mislabeling because of a spelling error. I had to completely redo a whole section because I misspelled a word ugh!)

07-02-2010, 02:18 PM	#38
itimpi Wizard Posts: 4,553 Karma: 950151 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: Sony PRS-950, iphone/ipad (Marvin/iBooks/QuickReader)	I have just sent a series to my PRS-505 and the resuting collection is not in order as had been suggested would be the case. In the Calibre GUI it was in reverse order at the time I sent it, and that is the order showing on the Sony. Previous posts suggested the order in the GUI did not matter - the books would be sorted when they were sent (they were all sent at the same time). I now need to a test where the books are in random order in thev GUI to see what order they appear in on the Sony. EDIT: I just a series that was randomly ordered in the GUI to the Sony and that DID end up in order. I will have to look more closely at my original case where it was an exact reverse order in the GUI ending up in reverse order on the Sony. Last edited by itimpi; 07-02-2010 at 03:15 PM.

07-04-2010, 06:12 PM	#44
JLYates Connoisseur Posts: 71 Karma: 44 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Sony 900BC	confused (which is not hard to do) I downloaded several books, sent them to my reader (Sony900). They arrived fine. Then realized that I had not done any of the editing in the meta information area. So, went there and did some. Then, added some more books and decided to re-edit them all, finding covers for books that didn't have any, putting in descriptions in ones that didn't have any and such. Have over 100 books, with only around 15 not having descriptions. In calibre they are correct, the way I want them, nice covers, descriptions that help to me know what the book is about. Now, I want to send them to my reader with all the updates. But wasn't sure what to do in the area that they are in my reader with the blank covers. So, tried to resend to the device (reader) I get back this message: could not upload the following book(s) to device as no suitable formats were found. Convert the book(s) to a format supported by your device. Huh? They have already been converted to ePub. Now what? Do I have to remove the books and start all over again? Why won't it let me redo them, or is there another way? Or did I miss a step? I went to the selections at the top, where it has author, title and such and rearranged them to Author, Title, Series, Tags, Dates, MB, Published. I could care less about rating and some of the other areas, would like to see genre, but I can do that with tags. Could have reorganizing the labels have created this problems? Janette The books are still all on my Sony 900 reader, just many still without a cover or they have the authors face; such as Tale of Two Cities and many other classics. Last edited by JLYates; 07-04-2010 at 10:15 PM. Reason: grammer, clarification

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07-02-2010, 12:41 PM	#37
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,447 Karma: 8012886 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	Oh well. Looks like it will remain a mystery. Thanks for looking!

07-02-2010, 04:01 PM	#39
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,447 Karma: 8012886 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	It is possible that collections are not ordered after all. Collections are indeed sorted when they are first processed. However, when collections are actually added to the device's database, a program construction is used for efficiency that does not guarantee order. As such, the collections could easily end up different. I will try to fix this in time for the 0.7.7 release.

07-02-2010, 05:00 PM	#40
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,447 Karma: 8012886 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	I found a problem. As I said before, the intent was to sort collections when a book was sent to the collection. The reality was that collections were sorted when at least one book was added to the collection. Because of this, resending a book did not reorder the collection unless it was accompanied by at least one new book. Fixed in next release - 0.7.7. The python construct problem was never included in a release. And won't be.

07-02-2010, 05:26 PM	#41
itimpi Wizard Posts: 4,553 Karma: 950151 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: Sony PRS-950, iphone/ipad (Marvin/iBooks/QuickReader)	My further tests suggest that at the moment if sending multiple books at the same time and the series is already ordered (either ascending or descending) then it is ending being sent 'as is'. I am only mentioning nthat in case some special method is being used to test for sorted that treats both ascdending and descending cases as sorted. I assume that the intent is that it should always be ordered in ascending order?

07-03-2010, 10:01 AM	#43
markbond1007 Connoisseur Posts: 57 Karma: 122 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: CyBook Gen3, Sony PRS-600	Many thanks, it could very well do it already, I havent had much chance to update either Calibre or my sony recently but have been keepinh an eye out here, when I saw the thread I posted because it always was a bugbear of mine. I'll try and find some time to update soon and let you know if it works now! Regards Mark

07-04-2010, 09:25 PM	#45
tponzo Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 237 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: OH USA Device: Sony PRS 900(gave it to my sister); Sony PRS-T1; onyx book note air	I get more confused about collections and meta data w/each new post so am manually managing my collections. What I would like to know is - is there a way to label multiple books with a collection label all at once? Just added my Jane Austen collection (6 books). I want to have them all in the category Fiction - Classics. Can I add this tag to all six books at once or do I need to do each book separately? (all at once is better, saves time and less chance of mislabeling because of a spelling error. I had to completely redo a whole section because I misspelled a word ugh!)