Using ebook readers on aeroplanes?

[whitearrow]

Right, I agree. But that's about not using the device. So what difference does it make if my Kindle is in sleep mode as opposed to "completely turned off" if it's sitting in my carry-on? If it's a non-interfering device (and it is, otherwise the airline would not let me use it at all under the rule you quoted), then it's a non-interfering device whether it's sleeping or "off."

I think flight attendants say what they say because it's easily understandable. But I don't think that sleep vs. off mode is specifically required by federal law.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

Right, I agree. But that's about not using the device. So what difference does it make if my Kindle is in sleep mode as opposed to "completely turned off" if it's sitting in my carry-on? If it's a non-interfering device (and it is, otherwise the airline would not let me use it at all under the rule you quoted), then it's a non-interfering device whether it's sleeping or "off."

Is it a non-interfering device? A Kindle has a cellular radio in it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that is still operating even when your Kindle is asleep, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that I've had books delivered to my Kindle by Whispernet even when it's "off" (ie, asleep, rather than powered off).

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Argue with that .

I'm not arguing anything, I was just wondering if your earlier blanket statement was really meant to be a blanket statement.

[DawnFalcon]

Post removed.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It it's not switched off, then it must be switched on, and hence is "operating".

Is that the legal definition of "operating" in this law, or your personal definition?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I've always rather assumed that the reason for the complete ban on takeoff and landing is so you'll be alert and listening to the instructions of the cabin crew in case of emergency. Evacuations happen at takeoff and landing, not at 30,000 feet.

No, the reason is because takeoff and landing are the most dangerous parts of a flight, and are when any interference with the avionics will have the biggest impact.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Nor am I. That's Harry's ball (lunatic compliance with every letter of every reg). I'm for just putting it in your bag during takeoff and landing.

Trouble is, DF, are you qualified to determine which regulations it is "lunatic" to comply with, and which it isn't? Can you guarantee that everyone on the aircraft is? Because if - as I rather suspect - the answer is "no", then the only safe option is to fully comply. It's not about security (which I entirely agree with you is primarily a matter of illusion) but about safety. Do these same people who don't know how to turn off a Kindle know how to turn off its cellular radio, do you suppose?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Is that the legal definition of "operating" in this law, or your personal definition?

I don't know. How does the law define it? Is "operating" a cell phone actually making a call on it, or merely having it turned on? My suspicion is that it's the latter, but that's just a guess.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know. How does the law define it? Is "operating" a cell phone actually making a call on it, or merely having it turned on? My suspicion is that it's the latter, but that's just a guess.

Might want to find that out before making any assumptions about what that law means. The answer will drastically change the context.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's not about security (which I entirely agree with you is primarily a matter of illusion) but about safety.

Definitely agree there. This has nothing to do with "security theater". This is purely a FAA safety regulation, which tend to be very strict (thankfully).

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It it's not switched off, then it must be switched on, and hence is "operating".

"no person may operate"

That is an active phrase.
If I turn off the Wifi on my iPod Touch, press the off button and stick in a pocket, in no sense am I operating it.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know. How does the law define it? Is "operating" a cell phone actually making a call on it, or merely having it turned on? My suspicion is that it's the latter, but that's just a guess.

In my experience airline staff say that all devices with an flight-safe mode must have it turned on for the whole of the flight. That is separate from turning things on and off for takeoff and landing.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

In my experience airline staff say that all devices with an flight-safe mode must have it turned on for the whole of the flight. That is separate from turning things on and off for takeoff and landing.

Granted. But if we are postulating that people actually don't know how to turn off their Kindle, do they know that it contains a cellphone? Even if they do know, do they know how to turn it off? As more and more devices become "connected", this could become a quite serious issue in the near future.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Granted. But if we are postulating that people actually don't know how to turn off their Kindle, do they know that it contains a cellphone?

Kindles contain a cellphone now?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Kindles contain a cellphone now?

I'm not sure if this is another one of your rhetorical questions, Shaggy, but on the off chance it isn't, then yes, a Kindle contains a cellular radio, exactly the same as used in a cellphone. It's used to purchase books over the air - what Amazon call "Whispernet". A Kindle is a cellphone that lacks the ability to make voice calls. As far as radio interference is concerned, it behaves in exactly the same way as any other cellphone.