Arizonan restrictive law backfires

[obs20]

Originally Posted by Poppa1956

... and we can agree that is where the law can fail. If, however, the various police agencies in Arizona make it a point to question everyone with whom they interact, regardless of perceived race of national origin, and they need to monitor various interactions to verify that they are not stopping a higher percentage of any ethnic population than they are of the populations of other races.
The odds are, however, that either they will stop a smaller percentage of the Caucasian males in the 50-60 y/o bracket, OR —no matter what they do —even if they (they police) are perfect*, they will be vilified by people opposing any attempt to protect the sovereignty of the US.

This is not about the police. They have a job to do. This is about my wife having to carry a passport card with her at all times because she has an accent, while I don't have to.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Then there's a lawful police encounter. I have those all the time, a cop drives up or walks up asks you if everything's okay often asks your name. This time they say papers please citizen. Since you're not required to carry ID and someone under 18 might not even have one to carry any of those kids with bown skin now has to worry about being detained even though they've broken no laws.

So it would be like living in the UK?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by obs20

This is from your wikipedia link:



So both are sources verify the abusive history of vagrancy laws.

it has worked against many kinds of people in the US. go find someone that was an honest to goodness hippie how many times they were locked up for vagrancy. they round up the drunks down on the public docks on aregular basis. who do you think was a majority of the population of psychiatric institutions before those "reforms". and those were mostly white people.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

[Originally Posted by kindlekitten
Never been bothered when I've left the US, even forign customs people have never given me even a second glance, US ones though..... Maybe I radiate dislike for authority real or imagined.

I have however (and still am) stopped constantly by ferry workers, airline workers, railway workers, because apparently there is something about my demeanor or the way I carry myself, if there is a person that needs assistance, I manage to be the joe citizen at large that gets tagged to be the "helper". so for whatever reason, I don't exactly fly under the radar.

while it is indeed difficult to determine whether we are REQUIRED to carry ID, it goes to show that the need for having one outweighs not having one. if you are a student, you are required to have ID at all times on ANY school campus. if you are seeking medical attention, you are required to have one. if you are employed chances are you are issued a company ID, and if not, you certainly had to pony up some id to get the job. you need to show id to use public library services. in short, there is very little you can do as a productive legal citizen without having id on you[/I]

I REALLY do not appreciate you re-arranging my words especially in that fashion. it's one thing to do this when goofing around, but this seriously pisses me right the f*** off. probably goes to show why law enforcement is in your face on such a regular basis

easy now, I just typoed with my quote boxes. I'll edit the post and fix it to what i intended it to say

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

easy now, I just typoed with my quote boxes. I'll edit the post and fix it to what i intended it to say

that seemed to be pretty damn deliberate to me. I'll let the mods deal with you.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that seemed to be pretty damn deliberate to me. I'll let the mods deal with you.

It wasn't but whatever, if you want to be hostile to me over a simple mistake go ahead.

[obs20]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it has worked against many kinds of people in the US. go find someone that was an honest to goodness hippie how many times they were locked up for vagrancy. they round up the drunks down on the public docks on aregular basis. who do you think was a majority of the population of psychiatric institutions before those "reforms". and those were mostly white people.

And the point is what?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by obs20

And the point is what?

that it is used against all races

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

So it would be like living in the UK?

You certainly do NOT have to carry ID in the UK.

There are situations where if you refuse to identify yourself you can get taken down the station until the *police* can identify you - the right to silence applies. And if they don't have another crime to charge you with, they have to let you go immediately on finding out who you are.

The police can send a demand to the owner of a car, if that car is seen committing a road traffic crime, for identification (including tax and insurance), but you have a week and if someone else was driving you simply have to produce evidence to that effect.

Please fact check before saying these things.

[happy_terd]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

You certainly do NOT have to carry ID in the UK.

There are situations where if you refuse to identify yourself you can get taken down the station until the *police* can identify you - the right to silence applies. And if they don't have another crime to charge you with, they have to let you go immediately on finding out who you are.

The police can send a demand to the owner of a car, if that car is seen committing a road traffic crime, for identification (including tax and insurance), but you have a week and if someone else was driving you simply have to produce evidence to that effect.

Please fact check before saying these things.

So can you stay if illegal?

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

You certainly do NOT have to carry ID in the UK.

There are situations where if you refuse to identify yourself you can get taken down the station until the *police* can identify you - the right to silence applies. And if they don't have another crime to charge you with, they have to let you go immediately on finding out who you are.

The police can send a demand to the owner of a car, if that car is seen committing a road traffic crime, for identification (including tax and insurance), but you have a week and if someone else was driving you simply have to produce evidence to that effect.

Please fact check before saying these things.

But they can stop you for any reason at all, and they can detain you if you don't identify yourself. Actually, that's worse.

I've been watching the direction the UK has been headed for some time now, and I'm beginning to think V for Vendetta is a prophecy, not a worst case scenario.

[DawnFalcon]

No, again, they can take you down the police station, and identify you, if you fail to provide them with ID. They have to *immediately* release you on verifying your identity.

Thanks for the UK-bashing, though.

[happy_terd]

Maybe us Americans could start up a charity called "send an illegal to the UK."

I am sure at least a few hundred thousand of us would donate towards that boat ride.

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

But they can stop you for any reason at all, and they can detain you if you don't identify yourself. Actually, that's worse.

I've been watching the direction the UK has been headed for some time now, and I'm beginning to think V for Vendetta is a prophecy, not a worst case scenario.

To be fair, they have highly dangerous criminals like soccer hooligans and happy-slappers loose on their streets. If that isn't a reason for a police state, I don't know what is.

Sorry, UK, I'm sure you probably have real criminals too (just none of the ones from Guy Ritchie films). You do have terrorists though, so there's something. I'm guessing those terrorists are probably why you can be harassed by 5-0 for no reason.

On the plus side, most of the cops there are unarmed and can't shoot you 41 times for reaching for your wallet.

[clarknova]

Originally Posted by happy_terd

Maybe us Americans could start up a charity called "send an illegal to the UK."

I am sure at least a few hundred thousand of us would donate towards that boat ride.

The UK has immigration problems of its own, as do many countries.