Would you buy an e-book with DRM? - Page 7

Coppersdad · 06-20-2010, 10:58 PM

After two years I am still buying books I want to read for my Kindle. I do archive all my books on my computer.
So far I have not had to try to remove the DRM from any books. But, there will come a time when I want to read a book I purchased on a device it is not formatted for. When that happens I will not hesitate to do whatever I must to make use of my property.

nikkers · 06-21-2010, 03:54 AM

DRM sucks but if you want to read a particular book then get where you can.

bill_mchale · 06-21-2010, 12:24 PM

I do not buy ebooks with DRM. I could buy books with DRM and strip the DRM, but I don't both because it is illegal and because I feel the best way of convincing publishers to drop DRM is by making books w/o DRM more successful than those that have it.

In theory, I am not opposed to DRM if the following conditions are met.

1. Its standardized across all significant platforms used for ebook reading.
2. It allows me to read the books I purchased when, where and how I want. In other words, no limits on the number of machines I use to read.
3. I do not have to register machines I use, or a credit card number or any other personal data that can then be sold to marketers.

Of course, since it is hard to imagine any DRM scheme that was not tied to physical media (like DVD's and CD's) meething these criteria, I am going to just keep saying I am opposed to DRM.

--
Bill

DarthV · 06-21-2010, 12:38 PM

I did some testing on a purchased ebook from B&N before I would even think about buying a reader. Pretty damn simple to strip the DRM from their epub files.

d2photo · 06-21-2010, 01:05 PM

Python scripts are a good thing. I'll leave it at that.

DawnFalcon · 06-21-2010, 02:58 PM

bill_mchale - Oh it's perfectly possible, from a technical standpoint. Public/private key encryption, as are many of these solutions. When you buy books, you enter your public key, and it gives you a tailored download. Those downloaded books can be read on any reader on which you have entered your private key.

(You can generate the private key from a username/password combo, based on a standard generation method...)

As long as your private key is kept secret, there is no way to read the books, and hence the files themselves don't matter unless the private key is included. And from the private key, you can establish the public key...and establish a direct link to the person who shared the books.

(The public key is harmless in itself, all it can be used for is encoding content for use with your private key. You basically can't derive the private key from it - while it's breakable, you can require a few million dollars of distributed computing work to do so!)

Will it happen? Will it heck.

pdurrant · 06-21-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

bill_mchale - Oh it's perfectly possible, from a technical standpoint. Public/private key encryption

Except that that only 'protects' the book in transmission. The purchaser can decode the book without a problem and then has it 'in clear' to distribute as they wish.

A DRM system that prevents piracy isn't possible.

dorino · 06-21-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

A DRM system that prevents piracy isn't possible.

A ____ that prevents piracy isn't possible.

The blank could really be anything you want, unfortunately.
Wish publishers, distributors, developers, authors, producers, and everyone else on the money-end of the deals would realize this.

DawnFalcon · 06-21-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Except that that only 'protects' the book in transmission.

Er... I don't know what you're thinking of, but you just check on every page turn for the right keys and use a hardware-based secure display path, the book is never decrypted per-se.

Point is, it's a DRM system which fills bill_mchale's criteria. This isn't about "stopping piracy", it's only about those criteria!

dmaul1114 · 06-21-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorino

A ____ that prevents piracy isn't possible.

The blank could really be anything you want, unfortunately.
Wish publishers, distributors, developers, authors, producers, and everyone else on the money-end of the deals would realize this.

100% true. The only thing they can do is try to reduce piracy, and DRM doesn't do that. Pirates tend to be tech savvy and have no problems stripping DRM. So all it does is inconvenience legitimate users--especially those who lack the tech literacy to keep up with stripping DRM, shifting formats etc.

As we move further into the era of digital media the real key will be finding ways to crack down on people who illegally upload and distribute copyrighted material? How? Beats me. But it needs to happen.

Else we'll eventually end up decades down the road (when the tech is there and available globally) where people pay for access to media stored on the cloud and never actually own a file or physical copy of books, movies, music etc.

DawnFalcon · 06-21-2010, 03:22 PM

It's not feasible from an economic standpoint. Never has been, never will. The "cloud" is ever going to be more viable than today, because processing power rises faster and local storage costs fall quicker than bandwidth prices fall.

I can see an argument for local mesh storage, but not "cloud" of any sizeable files.

And why does it "need to happen"? The evidence is that all you'll do is lower your profits when you try, and end up in a vicious cycle of ever-more-draconian restrictions and falling profits, *because* of your DRM.

Purple Lady · 06-21-2010, 06:34 PM

I'll buy DRM because I can strip it, and for current fiction it's pretty much the only way you can get it. I just use one of the book searches to make sure I get the cheapest price.

Stripping DRM is simple, so it doesn't matter to me. I have to strip DRM from everything I read anyway so I can reformat it in a better size font and remove all the blank space at the sides.

wodin · 06-22-2010, 12:01 AM

If I boycott DRM, I might as well not have an ereader, and just kill a bunch of trees. Not to mention where would I store all of those pbooks?

I bought my readers to enhance my reading experience, not to limit it!

Silver15 · 06-22-2010, 02:51 PM

I respect living authors and I strongly believe they should should get fair payment. I would NOT walk into a bookstore and take a book without paying for it. However,once paid for, it is mine and I am at liberty to read it in any room of my house, under a fluorescent light or a yellow tungsten bulb, in a train, in a bus or while waiting for a plane. DRM restricts normal use and I am always worried that a change of computer, operating system, loss of memory, etc., will prevent me from reading my own paid-for books. This did happen to me with something called Audible and I have quite a few of audiobooks which won't work on any of my current machines and while the Audible program allows me to log in, the superb intelligence behind the programme tells me that I cannot delete a machine except from the machine in which the machine identity was built (that machine was probably dismantled years ago) and that all my machine identities are used up. Well, it was something like that - and I just couldn't be bothered to buy another audiobook from Audible ever again. The same holds for other DRMed books - I think it is silly and amounts to saying 'you can only read this book in the third chair of the second room upstairs.' and then sticking in some silly code to try to enforce it. No, the problem lies with the ease of reproduction of electronic files combined with an attitude that denies the basic rights of living authors. There is no quick and easy solution - I can see from the voting pattern on this subject that most people are happy to pay for their books but are not willing to carry restrictions after their purchase - in other words they would buy a DRMed book and remove the DRM.

rrjchristopher · 07-19-2010, 05:17 PM

I dislike DRM, and prefer to buy ebooks that don't have it (about 60% of my ebook library is non-DRM). However, there are just too many books I want to read that aren't available without DRM, and DRM-stripping is too much of a bother - I'm a nurse by trade, not a hacker.

View Poll Results: Would you buy an e-book with DRM?
Yes	52	19.48%
No	58	21.72%
Yes, if I think I can remove the DRM after purchase	144	53.93%
It doesn't matter	13	4.87%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

06-20-2010, 10:58 PM	#91
Coppersdad See Spot Run/Run Spot Run Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rain, WA, USA Device: Kindle 2	There will come a time... After two years I am still buying books I want to read for my Kindle. I do archive all my books on my computer. So far I have not had to try to remove the DRM from any books. But, there will come a time when I want to read a book I purchased on a device it is not formatted for. When that happens I will not hesitate to do whatever I must to make use of my property.

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06-21-2010, 03:54 AM	#92
nikkers tragic Posts: 55 Karma: 1010096 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 160km from a bookshop Device: IPAQ classic	DRM sucks but if you want to read a particular book then get where you can.

06-21-2010, 12:24 PM	#93
bill_mchale Wizard Posts: 1,451 Karma: 1550000 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Maryland, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch, HPC Evo 4G LTE	I do not buy ebooks with DRM. I could buy books with DRM and strip the DRM, but I don't both because it is illegal and because I feel the best way of convincing publishers to drop DRM is by making books w/o DRM more successful than those that have it. In theory, I am not opposed to DRM if the following conditions are met. 1. Its standardized across all significant platforms used for ebook reading. 2. It allows me to read the books I purchased when, where and how I want. In other words, no limits on the number of machines I use to read. 3. I do not have to register machines I use, or a credit card number or any other personal data that can then be sold to marketers. Of course, since it is hard to imagine any DRM scheme that was not tied to physical media (like DVD's and CD's) meething these criteria, I am going to just keep saying I am opposed to DRM. -- Bill

06-21-2010, 12:38 PM	#94
DarthV Enthusiast Posts: 37 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Device: Nook WiFi	I did some testing on a purchased ebook from B&N before I would even think about buying a reader. Pretty damn simple to strip the DRM from their epub files.

06-21-2010, 01:05 PM	#95
d2photo Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sacramento, Ca Device: iphone/software readers	Python scripts are a good thing. I'll leave it at that.

06-21-2010, 02:58 PM	#96
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	bill_mchale - Oh it's perfectly possible, from a technical standpoint. Public/private key encryption, as are many of these solutions. When you buy books, you enter your public key, and it gives you a tailored download. Those downloaded books can be read on any reader on which you have entered your private key. (You can generate the private key from a username/password combo, based on a standard generation method...) As long as your private key is kept secret, there is no way to read the books, and hence the files themselves don't matter unless the private key is included. And from the private key, you can establish the public key...and establish a direct link to the person who shared the books. (The public key is harmless in itself, all it can be used for is encoding content for use with your private key. You basically can't derive the private key from it - while it's breakable, you can require a few million dollars of distributed computing work to do so!) Will it happen? Will it heck.

06-21-2010, 03:22 PM	#101
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	It's not feasible from an economic standpoint. Never has been, never will. The "cloud" is ever going to be more viable than today, because processing power rises faster and local storage costs fall quicker than bandwidth prices fall. I can see an argument for local mesh storage, but not "cloud" of any sizeable files. And why does it "need to happen"? The evidence is that all you'll do is lower your profits when you try, and end up in a vicious cycle of ever-more-draconian restrictions and falling profits, because of your DRM.

06-21-2010, 06:34 PM	#102
Purple Lady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,698 Karma: 16542228 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Device: Huawei MediaPad M5, LG V30, Boyue T80S, Nexus 7 LTE, K3 3G, Fire HD8	I'll buy DRM because I can strip it, and for current fiction it's pretty much the only way you can get it. I just use one of the book searches to make sure I get the cheapest price. Stripping DRM is simple, so it doesn't matter to me. I have to strip DRM from everything I read anyway so I can reformat it in a better size font and remove all the blank space at the sides.

06-22-2010, 12:01 AM	#103
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	If I boycott DRM, I might as well not have an ereader, and just kill a bunch of trees. Not to mention where would I store all of those pbooks? I bought my readers to enhance my reading experience, not to limit it!

06-22-2010, 02:51 PM	#104
Silver15 Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Sony PRS 600	I respect living authors and I strongly believe they should should get fair payment. I would NOT walk into a bookstore and take a book without paying for it. However,once paid for, it is mine and I am at liberty to read it in any room of my house, under a fluorescent light or a yellow tungsten bulb, in a train, in a bus or while waiting for a plane. DRM restricts normal use and I am always worried that a change of computer, operating system, loss of memory, etc., will prevent me from reading my own paid-for books. This did happen to me with something called Audible and I have quite a few of audiobooks which won't work on any of my current machines and while the Audible program allows me to log in, the superb intelligence behind the programme tells me that I cannot delete a machine except from the machine in which the machine identity was built (that machine was probably dismantled years ago) and that all my machine identities are used up. Well, it was something like that - and I just couldn't be bothered to buy another audiobook from Audible ever again. The same holds for other DRMed books - I think it is silly and amounts to saying 'you can only read this book in the third chair of the second room upstairs.' and then sticking in some silly code to try to enforce it. No, the problem lies with the ease of reproduction of electronic files combined with an attitude that denies the basic rights of living authors. There is no quick and easy solution - I can see from the voting pattern on this subject that most people are happy to pay for their books but are not willing to carry restrictions after their purchase - in other words they would buy a DRMed book and remove the DRM.

07-19-2010, 05:17 PM	#105
rrjchristopher Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: iPod Touch	I dislike DRM, and prefer to buy ebooks that don't have it (about 60% of my ebook library is non-DRM). However, there are just too many books I want to read that aren't available without DRM, and DRM-stripping is too much of a bother - I'm a nurse by trade, not a hacker.