The word liseuse being used outside of MobileRead?

[zelda_pinwheel]

actually some of the anti-liseuse stances in this thread and elsewhere *are* a bit reminiscent of the Académie's attempts to prevent people from using words they don't approve of. but, 1. the Académie can say what they want, everyone still says "weekend" and "parking" in french (and at this point i'm pretty sure they've given up on that anyway), and 2. my impression is that the foreign press has tended to greatly exagerrate their reports of the Académie's actions / influence.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

The Daily Mail is like the Fox News of British tabloid journalism (most British journalism is shoddy anyway, whichever side pays for the content).

I'm not sure what the French national approach to language adoption has to do with the adoption of French words into the English Language. The precedent is that the English Language (and let's not forget that the English language is at least part French) regularly accepts words from other 'foreign' tongues and incorporates them into our common lexicon. Thus making Liseuse an acceptable word to embrace as an English speaker.

It's not like we're trying to get every native French speaker in the world to take on board the word 'minger' Then it would be a whole different kettle of fish.

I'm perfectly well aware of what the English language is made up of. and lets not forget German, Spanish, Latin, Arabic and a few other languages.

I think it is ironic that such a tizzy is being made over a french word when the french get their panties into such a wad over the perceived bastardization of their language. to the point of having a government office overseeing it

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I'm perfectly well aware of what the English language is made up of. and lets not forget German, Spanish, Latin, Arabic and a few other languages.

I think it is ironic that such a tizzy is being made over a french word when the french get their panties into such a wad over the perceived bastardization of their language. to the point of having a government office overseeing it

There's no tizzy (not even a half tizzy) and the situation with a few of us on here adopting a lovely word is hardly comparable to governing bodies decreeing what words can and cannot be used. And I can almost certainly say that the majority off the French 'do not' get their panties into a wad. The French 'Academy' do, although it's a pointless kind of anger that can never truly come to much.

Can't we Liseusers just have our word without everybody party-pooping all over it all the time?

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's not like we're trying to get every native French speaker in the world to take on board the word 'minger' Then it would be a whole different kettle of fish.

And why not - minger is a very good word and perfectly captures something about its referent that no other word quite does.

Up with minger's I say - or even up with minges

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by TGS

And why not - minger is a very good word and perfectly captures something about its referent that no other word quite does.

Up with minger's I say - or even up with minges

*tears in eyes with laughter*

I want to give you a billion karma points for using the word 'minges', but alas I already gave you karma.

[Greg Anos]

wow, what a lively debate! I've been working for the last 14 hours, so just read the thread.

Where did LASER come from? Compact Disc? MP3? Linux? ....

A small group of geeks created a tag and used it. It filled a descriptive void, and became part of common usage. This happens in living languages with changing technologies.

We have a cluster of devices, all designed to read formatted electronic images of paper books as their primary function. English does not have a unique word that describes these devices, that does not already have other common usages. Most of the suggested words not unique, either being defined as existing formats (confusion), or don't distinguish between the device and the images being read/displayed, or flat out being confused with it's analog predecessor.

In France, they had the same problem, and they created a word to specifically describe the devices in question. Some of us have picked up the word from francophones, because it fills a lexicographic in the English language, and is short (2 syllables). Furthermore, being a recent import, it has <no> overlap with any other term currently in use.

If this is a bother, then the people who are offended by it need to create a unique term for use in English to describe these devices, and for popular usage, it needs to be two syllables or less, and have <no> overlap with existing technology.

(Note, the term e-book (with or without hyphen) is now a worldwide term for the digital image of a book. nobody confuses it with any other usage. The readers of e-books need a word with the same level of uniqueness.)

Of course, some people like me may still use the French word, just as a bon mot.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Where did LASER come from? Compact Disc? MP3? Linux? ....

I know that it is a retorical question-- but two of the terms (LASER, MP3) were technical ones used for describing a process and a file format that were never originally anticipated to be household items or household words (MP3 was meant for consumers, but only as an audio layer in MPEG files, not as a separate file format.) Linux is of course a play on the os Unix and Linus Torvalds. None of those were attempts to arbitrarily rename a preexisting bit of tech.

"Compact Disc" comes the closest to being a correct analogy for this thread-- it is a simple, plain-English descriptive term that anyone can quickly grasp and remember-- a "Compact Disc" is a round platter like a record, but really small-- it is a "disc" that is "compact". To get the analogy exactly correct, there would have to be a group of people who, concerned that there would be too much confusion when people said "Compact Disc" as to whether they were talking about the disc itself or the device that plays it, several years after they entered the market started wanting people to call Compact Disc players "ezlakoplobs"-- just to avoid the confusion. Then, rather than having to go through the trouble of saying "Compact Disc" and "Compact Disc player" they could say "compact disc" and "ezlakoplob", making everything simple, clear, and non-confusing.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

We have a cluster of devices, all designed to read formatted electronic images of paper books as their primary function. English does not have a unique word that describes these devices, that does not already have other common usages. Most of the suggested words not unique, either being defined as existing formats (confusion), or don't distinguish between the device and the images being read/displayed, or flat out being confused with it's analog predecessor.

In France, they had the same problem, and they created a word to specifically describe the devices in question.

That is, regretably, incorrect. The word "liseuse" was not invented for this purpose. It's a word with many meanings in French, including "reading lamp", "reading desk", "book jacket", "a lady's bed jacket", "paper knife", and "a woman reader". Moreover, it's not even universally used in French - one finds the word "lecteur" (literally "reader") used at least as often.

So the situation in French is at least as confused as it is in English, and there really does seem to be no justification for attempting to import a French word, when "eBook reader" or "eReader" has become the standard used in English.

[AprilHare]

It's already been imported! And I like it

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That is, regretably, incorrect. The word "liseuse" was not invented for this purpose. It's a word with many meanings in French, including "reading lamp", "reading desk", "book jacket", "a lady's bed jacket", "paper knife", and "a woman reader". Moreover, it's not even universally used in French - one finds the word "lecteur" (literally "reader") used at least as often.

So the situation in French is at least as confused as it is in English, and there really does seem to be no justification for attempting to import a French word, when "eBook reader" or "eReader" has become the standard used in English.

So if you're so certain that eReader and eBook reader (both grossly inaccurate descriptions) are the standards, why bother with our little bit of word fun? And the very fact that Liseuse has so many meanings and has not settled upon one, gives our usage some merit. Adopting the word fits the pattern of usage of that word.

[AprilHare]

Defining a word as belonging to one language only and refusing to allow migration of words is not a bit narrow-minded. Am I wrong?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by AprilHare

Defining a word as belonging to one language only and refusing to allow migration of words is not a bit narrow-minded. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

So if you're so certain that eReader and eBook reader (both grossly inaccurate descriptions) are the standards, why bother with our little bit of word fun? And the very fact that Liseuse has so many meanings and has not settled upon one, gives our usage some merit. Adopting the word fits the pattern of usage of that word.

The view that "eBook Reader" and "eReader" are the accepted terms is one of simple observation. Look at any of the sites selling such devices and see what they call them.

You are of course very welcome to use any word you wish, just as other people are equally entitled to express their objections to it. I just think personally that you're on to a "no hoper"; your chances are getting this word accepted in English are non-existant. There is also the issue of people understanding what you mean. If you say to someone "I have a liseuse", they almost certainly won't have a clue what you mean; say "I have an eBook Reader" and, even if they have never come across the device, they will at least have a reasonable idea of what you're talking about.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The view that "eBook Reader" and "eReader" are the accepted terms is one of simple observation. Look at any of the sites selling such devices and see what they call them.

You are of course very welcome to use any word you wish, just as other people are equally entitled to express their objects to it. I just think personally that you're on to a "no hoper"; your chances are getting this word accepted in English are non-existant. There is also the issue of people understanding what you mean. If you say to someone "I have a liseuse", they almost certainly won't have a clue what you mean; say "I have an eBook Reader" and, even if they have never come across the device, they will at least have a reasonable idea of what you're talking about.

I always favour hopeless causes and I never did pick a side because I knew I would win, quite the opposite.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Well, I'm derailing your derailment! The first commercially successful MP3 player was the Rio PMP 300, made by Diamond, not Creative. It was fought by the RIAA, but not-- as far as I know-- by the band Diamond Rio. I had one (and still do, but don't have the proprietary data cable it needs.) The very first one was this one.

Naturally, that last part was pointing to my first (and current) MP3 player... I wanted to buy something that allowed me to use my MP3 player in my car. I found a cassette, with a headphone connecting thingie. According to the description it was to let you play your Ipod using the cassette player in your car... Well, I don't have an Ipod, never had an Ipod and never will have an Ipod. But I do have a MP3 player from Creative... Which, wonders of wonders!, also works with that player!