Philosophy: books and discussion

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So if we are able to duplicate the functioning of the human mind in a computer, would it be considered conscious? Would it be alive?

Cogito ergo sum?

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So if we are able to duplicate the functioning of the human mind in a computer, would it be considered conscious? Would it be alive?

P.S. There is an ongoing discussion thread I started a few weeks back on another forum called "What is Consciousness"

Conscious, yes, since we are talking about duplicating the functioning of the human mind, and consciousness is a part of it. Alive, I don't know.

[obs20]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What struck me upon watching "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" was the remarkable coincidence that intelligent life from another star system used the same tonal system as Western music.

The octave is universal. It's simply the nature of the mathematics that if you divide a frequency by a certain amount you end up with the same note at a higher pitch, but each culture divides that octave differently. People in the Western world have been exposed to the 12-tone scale for so long it seems only natural, but other cultures have traditionally divided the octave differently. Traditional Japanese music uses, I believe, a 5-tone scale, while traditional Indian music (like that of Ravi Shankar) uses a 17-note scale.

I'm trying to follow this:
The octave is a physical phenomena, the frequency of a sound wave is either doubled or halved. And humans universally respond to it in their cultures through their music. I even get the part of the singing blue tits wanting attention(and getting it)
Now,
the movie about aliens.. I need some kind of proof.

[FlorenceArt]

It's amazing how much movie aliens look and act like humans - well, not really amazing

In my experience, there are three kinds of aliens in movies:

- bad aliens - look like insects, tend to lay eggs, sometimes have hive behavior, no language skills
- cute aliens - invariably look like babies
- all others - look very much like humans, with more or less differences depending on budget - usually skin coloring and weird growths on head - culture vaguely related to "exotic" (to the Hollywood bunch) countries

I would really really really like to meet (well, just see maybe) a real alien

[GeoffC]

Does this thread exist .....

On a separate note I was surprised when reading a book my friend beppe lent me, that in 400BC a philosopher hinted at the Big Bang .... That must have astounded his generation as much as it astounded me in this .... But then perhaps the Greeks were more enlightened, than some in the ages between the BCs and the Renaissance ....

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

It's amazing how much movie aliens look and act like humans - well, not really amazing

In my experience, there are three kinds of aliens in movies:

- bad aliens - look like insects, tend to lay eggs, sometimes have hive behavior, no language skills
- cute aliens - invariably look like babies
- all others - look very much like humans, with more or less differences depending on budget - usually skin coloring and weird growths on head - culture vaguely related to "exotic" (to the Hollywood bunch) countries

I would really really really like to meet (well, just see maybe) a real alien

Would you .... really ! .... It has been suggested they would be less than impressed with us ....

[TGS]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So if we are able to duplicate the functioning of the human mind in a computer, would it be considered conscious? Would it be alive?

Well, by definition if we duplicate the functioning of the human mind, and on the assumption that consciousness is a function of the human mind, it would be conscious. However, if by "duplicating the functioning of the human mind" you actually mean "duplicating the functioning of the human mind minus consciousness" then it obviously won't be conscious. So the answer depends on what the question means.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Would you .... really ! .... It has been suggested they would be less than impressed with us ....

Another one of the myths going around about aliens, that tell more about us than about them. Why would we be worse than they are? Or they better than we? Why would we even have any ground for comparing notes? How would we communicate with them? That assumes at least some common thought processes. I refuse to make any assumptions about aliens.

[GeoffC]

Quite right too...!

One has to assume that if they find us, that they will be superior; by what measure of superiority will I assume depend on how far they have travelled in order to make our aquaintance.

[obs20]

Last night I watched the movie District 9 on DVD. Repulsive at first then engaging, incredibly well done.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Do you mean that the octaves are the same everywhere, which I suppose would mean that everybody uses the same divider/multiplier? So that the tonal range is the same, but only the number of notes in between varies?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, as I said I don't know a thing about music.

My dearest!

Rather than giving contextual answers to your absolutely non stupid and therefore intelligent questions, I let my self address you to this interesting entry point about Acoustique musicale. It exists also in English, but from it's structure I believe that the English version is a translation.

There you will find all the elements for this important subject, even with little software devices that will let you play while you study, in the best tradition.

Please accept my never ending admiration and gratitude

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by TGS

Well, by definition if we duplicate the functioning of the human mind, and on the assumption that consciousness is a function of the human mind, it would be conscious. However, if by "duplicating the functioning of the human mind" you actually mean "duplicating the functioning of the human mind minus consciousness" then it obviously won't be conscious. So the answer depends on what the question means.

Love it....and certainly right on target.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Quite right too...!

One has to assume that if they find us, that they will be superior; by what measure of superiority will I assume depend on how far they have travelled in order to make our aquaintance.

They will have superior technology, if they find us (an assumption I wasn't making). But many of the myths suggest that they would be morally or intellectually superior. Why? To be morally superior, they would first have to have the same ethical frame of reference that we have, and then to be better than us at respecting it. That's not impossible, but why would it be the most plausible case? Let's keep our own insecurity and guilt to ourselves.

Notice how all those alien theories are centered on one thing: us. Aliens created us as part of a genetic experiment. Aliens are watching us and judging us. Aliens are planning to take over the Earth (that is, take it from us, its rightful owners). Aliens are abducting us and conducting experiments (what, again?). Aliens are secretly helping us. Well, duh. If they're so in love with us, how come I haven't seen any yet?

Chances are, if there are sentient aliens out there, they simply don't give a quark's ass.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by TGS

Well, by definition if we duplicate the functioning of the human mind, and on the assumption that consciousness is a function of the human mind, it would be conscious. However, if by "duplicating the functioning of the human mind" you actually mean "duplicating the functioning of the human mind minus consciousness" then it obviously won't be conscious. So the answer depends on what the question means.

Which brings us back to Plato: let's start by defining what we are talking about

Oh, I forgot, that's what we are doing, isn't it?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

...

Oh, I forgot, that's what we are doing, isn't it?

Are we?