On the table: DRM trumps fair dealing (Canada)

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by omk3

That's it exactly, all this locking down just shows fear and distrust, not a very helpful climate for creating and exchanging ideas.

But there are still a lot of writers who don't even have their work out as ebooks. The whole drm question has not even arisen for them yet.

I hope all these are just teething problems of a new reality. But having such shortsighted legislations in place sure isn't helping.

It's going to be a rude awakening for some writers in the coming years. Free, as in freedom is rapidly becoming the gold standard. DRM is an irrelevant non-technology that cannot be maintained.

[HarryT]

Without copyright protection for content producers, there is no commercial incentive to create content. Amateur writing is all well and good, and bravo to those who do write for the love of it, but if you want professional authors to carry on writing, there has to be an effective mechanism in place to allow those authors the opportunity to make a fair return from their work.

DRM is not inherently bad - most of us, for example, accept without complaint the DRM which is present on DVDs, and the reason for that is that all DVD players will play such DVDs. What is needed is an effective DRM mechanism for eBooks that is a universal standard, and does not impede customers from making reasonable use of their books.

Much as I'd like to see the abolition of DRM, I honestly believe that's an unrealistic goal.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Without copyright protection for content producers, there is no commercial incentive to create content. Amateur writing is all well and good, and bravo to those who do write for the love of it, but if you want professional authors to carry on writing, there has to be an effective mechanism in place to allow those authors the opportunity to make a fair return from their work.

DRM is not inherently bad - most of us, for example, accept without complaint the DRM which is present on DVDs, and the reason for that is that all DVD players will play such DVDs. What is needed is an effective DRM mechanism for eBooks that is a universal standard, and does not impede customers from making reasonable use of their books.

Much as I'd like to see the abolition of DRM, I honestly believe that's an unrealistic goal.

Those 'professional' writers won't last the next ten years in the face of what is happening to our culture and to our economic and social systems. Professional means very little in the digital world, a word that in reality means very little outside either. The difference between professional and amateur creator is the sanction by a publisher who is willing to gamble on monetary returns (more often than not wrong).

And I do not accept, nor have I ever accepted DRM on any product I buy. I strip the DRM immediately and content shift all my DVD/Blu-Ray/Book purchases into a non-DRM format.

The unrealistic goal is that DRM can survive in the face of the internet. It cannot. It will not. It should not.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by HarryT

....

Much as I'd like to see the abolition of DRM, I honestly believe that's an unrealistic goal.

Why? Mp3s don't have drm, do they? And the music scene is as alive as ever.

A 'professional' artist is for me a bit of an oxymoron. But even so, I believe most people will want to reward a writer they like. They don't have to be forced by artificial means like drm. Speaking for myself, as I am of a contrary nature, being forced to pay for something (especially extra)will have a negative effect on me actually paying.

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by omk3

But even so, I believe most people will want to reward a writer they like. They don't have to be forced by artificial means like drm.

I can't write an entertaining story of any type. What I can do with my money is support new writers by buying their books.

Another thing I can do is to not buy DRM books. Publishers aren't going to notice that though. They'll just chalk lower sales up to piracy. They'll think that they need more laws and better DRM.

And to show you how UTTERLY STUPID they are, I have a true story.

In the mid '90s there was a lot of talk about the "Internet Supper Highway". There was a senator (I'm not sure which state he was from, somewhere around Montana or North/South Dakota) that asked "What can we do to prevent drunk driving on the Internet Supper Highway?"

Those that believe that the "government" can help us....

Well, maybe they shouldn’t drive drunk on the Internet Supper Highway.

[omk3]

It's painfully obvious that most legislators have no idea what they are talking about, at least in technological matters. But they never let that stop them. And the less you know, the more you fear of course.

[EowynCarter]

effective DRM

Well, these two works don't go together well. And never will.
Hey, name me a drm that wasn't broken ? They only make sure the paid product have less value, because it is locked.

And if you where speaking of drm on DVD, these are pain really. Make putting a copy on my portable player a bit of a mess. (Yes, MY player, for MY use.) An illegal copy would have just been copy / past.
And blue-ray are even worse. I'll think twice before buying an other one.
Customer don't buy someting to put it on torrent site. On the other hand, they want someting that "just works". And DRM succed in making things not working, a lot.

Music industry got the message, and ditched DRM. No we're wating for the movies, books and gamming industry to wake up.

Is dmca really applied ? I don't think anyone went to trial for de-drm for personal use right ?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Without copyright protection for content producers, there is no commercial incentive to create content.

Why not? What empirical studies do you base this claim on?

DRM is not inherently bad - most of us, for example, accept without complaint the DRM which is present on DVDs,

Nearly nobody in Sweden accepts it since nearly everybody buy a player that can play all regions and in this way circumvent the DRM. Also people are now regularly breaking the DRM on their DVDs to move the data to a hard drive. They want to put the DVDs in the cellar to save room.

[HarryT]

It seems like simple common sense to me, Tommy.

Copyright law grants the creator of a work the exclusive right to control it and profit from it. I don't need to conduct "empirical studies" to tell me that if that exclusive right to profit from a work did not exist, neither would the motive to create it.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It seems like simple common sense to me, Tommy.

Copyright law grants the creator of a work the exclusive right to control it and profit from it. I don't need to conduct "empirical studies" to tell me that if that exclusive right to profit from a work did not exist, neither would the motive to create it.

But your claim was not that it was the copyright law that was the important thing. You said that DRM was necessary. I agree that some kind of copyright is a good idea (a short time like 14 years). But the statement that DRM is necessary for the copyright law to have the intended effect I strongly believe is false. In any case there is no empirical evidence to support your strong claim.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

if that exclusive right to profit from a work did not exist, neither would the motive to create it.

You should know that historically people have always created. And even when we have copyright it seems that exclusive right is nearly never a necessary condition to create.

[HarryT]

No, I didn't say that. What I said - and the statement that you quoted - was:

Without copyright protection for content producers, there is no commercial incentive to create content.

I certainly don't think that DRM is necessary in order to produce and sell commercial products. Publishers may think that it is (which is why I said that I think DRM is inevitable), but that is an mistaken belief.

[Avarwen]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

it came to the US years ago its called the DMCA

Ah I was wondering about that I'm still new to ebooks so I still have some things to learn.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by omk3

In any case, they can't really enter your house or look at your readers and say: "Aha! You bought this as a kindle book and now you read it on your sony! Busted!" Or can they?

If your reader has internet access they wouldn't really need to enter your house.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Much as I'd like to see the abolition of DRM, I honestly believe that's an unrealistic goal.

Books will follow the same path as music. It has so far, with the same mistakes being made at each point along the way. So far the only thing that the book publishers did differently was that they didn't try to block the manufacture of standalone ebook readers like the music publishers tried to do with mp3 players.