Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[WT Sharpe]

You're right, I had forgotten that Native Americans also used it as a symbol long before the rise of Hitler.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it's also a traditional Navajo symbol. when I was growing up we had a BUNCH of traditional wool rugs around the house and unfortunately I learned about Nazis long before I learned native lore. one of the rugs had a reversed swastika on it (not that I realized it was reversed). I was terrified that my family were secret nazis until I was about 10

Ah Ha! Now I understand!

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Ah Ha! Now I understand!

understand what?

[Kolenka]

Yeah, you can find prominent symbols used in many different cultures, especially simpler symbols like basic shapes or geometric patterns. A lot of times completely independent of each other to boot.

But the core of it is that some symbols will become offensive or act as a warning sign to other groups simply because a group using that symbol has done stupid/bad things. Being able to recognize that the swastika is linked to Nazis off the top of your head might help you live longer than recognizing it as the Navajo symbol. I don't think anyone here has an actual belief that the Navajo will run around anytime soon threatening to kill to people, while neo-Nazi movements can still be troublesome.

The problem that the US has had in the last few decades is that our actions that affect the world stage haven't always been received well. So their viewpoint of the symbol changes, and it is simply that much harder to purge that new meaning out once it is there, because it is negative.

As for this company, I'm not entirely sure why they felt their customers would be getting that offended on American soil over an American flag (I work in an area filled with a lot of people working here under H-1B visas, and have not encountered anything like this). That said, I'm not entirely sure I'd file this in my priority list of "things that need fixing right now", since this is a private company perfectly welcome to push themselves out of the marketplace, IMO. I'd rather have time/money spent on regulations that actually have a larger social/economic/environmental benefit for the cost, or because the cost of not doing it are too high.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

understand what?

U



Those first 10 years are the most important.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

U



Those first 10 years are the most important.

oh, there's a helluva a lot of other things I had convinced myself of during those years as well. that was just the tip of the ice berg!

[BooksForABuck]

Oh, the irony. The same wingnuts who say that government shouldn't interfere with business's ability to, say, exclude people of color are saying government should interfere with business's ability to set rules on what will be displayed on their property.

I don't know the details of this flag thing, and don't trust Fox to deliver anything that even vaguely resembles the truth (or even that they didn't make the whole thing up), but I sure recognize hypocrisy. For example, does the apartment complex have limits on the size of the signs (or on all signs) that they allow? Is this okay, or do we need to say signs can be excluded except when they're American flags. What other exceptions do we need to make? Perhaps favored religious symbols should be allowed?

One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

Oh, the irony. The same wingnuts who say that government shouldn't interfere with business's ability to, say, exclude people of color are saying government should interfere with business's ability to set rules on what will be displayed on their property.

You'd be wrong about that. The "wingnuts" who think private businesses should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason tend to be of a libertarian persuasion. "Conservatives" associated with the Republican Party have long since stopped trying to advocate an absolute right to private property. Libertarians, on the other hand, will tell you that a private business is free to tell anyone what they can or can't do on on the business's property (this includes apartments, which the business owns). You shouldn't just lump such a large group of people together like that. Contrary to popular belief, there are more nuances to political philosophy than simply two polar extremes.

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

Do most topics in the lounge forum have anything to do with e-books?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

I think, as an insight into US culture, it could help us non-US readers understand books set in the US better than we would otherwise.

Kolenka has contributed excellent posts about the symbolism; but I'm also understanding the differences between our cultures in terms of behaviour.

The question: 'what sort of person would display their flag outside their home' has very different answers in the US, where it seems to be normal, than in the UK, where it's rare and hence viewed more warily.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

oh, there's a helluva a lot of other things I had convinced myself of during those years as well. that was just the tip of the ice berg!

Hee-Hee.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

...
One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

..

No. but that's irrelevant, this is the llounge.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

Nope, and therefore it's in the right place. From the blurb for the Lounge:

Lounge Friendly banter and discussions unrelated to e-books

My emphasis

[J. Strnad]

Damn that Obama! Apparently he personally marched up to this man and ripped the flag out of his window, then burned it and marched around the flames with his finger over his lip like a Hitler moustache. And the First Lady, dressed in a burqua, stood there and did nothing! Shameful!

Or was that a dream Glenn Beck had? I forget.

Anyway, the situation is disgusting but I can't see what Obama had to do with it. That flag act was passed in 2005. Hm, who was in the White House and who controlled Congress then? I can't remember....

If it was me, I'd fly my flag and say, "Take me to court and have your hair combed when the media come to take your picture. Me on the street with my belongings AND MY AMERICAN FLAG will make a great photo op."

[Angst]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

These things did happen and they were terrible (my brother missed the train that morning where many of the people were killed). And these things happened because Muslim youth were disenfranchised, ostracised and blamed by society for earlier actions that were actually performed by American-backed, American-trained and Saudi based nutjobs who performed the horrible act on 11/09. If you think it had anything to do with religious affiliation, then you're wrong. Religion was the hook they pinned their anger upon after America so raped the middle east in the years leading up to 11/09.

Bombings were also frequent in my country from the 1960's onwards wtih IRA. And they happened far more frequently and were more devestating overall. Britain also over-reacted then by framing Irish people left right and centre. The same fear that is spread now about Muslims was spread about the Irish during the 70's and it targets the same privileged, white, middle class fears through national media. Oh, and your country, through backdoor deals and quiite brazenly through your communities supported the IRA Terrorism at the time. Shit, terrorism wasn't even a dirty word until it actually hit your shores for the first time.

And you see, it's that not caring of your initial statement that so pisses of the rest of the world. You are an Empire, and you hold the same Empire like notions that the British had at the turn of 1900's. We didn't care either. We just stomped around the world bringing tea-time and genocide with us, not caring. Saluting our bullshit flag and our bullshit royalty, while painting everyone else as subpar and often sub-human. Look how that turned out? (Of course we do still have impeccable taste and we still have the 'U's' in our language).

Salute your flag, but you're saluting a history of genocide, blood-letting, racism, bigotry, invasion and intolerance. And that's what pisses me off and others here. We come here every day and all we get is this trotting out of flags and soldiers and 'gee golly aren't we great' back patting bullshit. I don't want to hear about your stupid flag, or your stupid soldiers, or what country you're raping tomorrow - whether that's economic or cultural.

Just like every other country America invades, you and all the rest of the New Mobileread Patriots have invaded this forum and reduced it to a quasi-political, no discourse, everyone is American series of simplistic grunting, unquestioning gestures. I've lost friends here because I dared stand up to your bullshit, good friends (and because I got angry and wanted to kick a few of you in the head too - naughty pacifist that I am).

if you want to have an America-is-great orgy so badly Fox News has its own forums, you know?

Funny that an Englishman should condemn America. England deported religious nuts and criminals to America before 1730. For a country built by criminals and wing-nuts, we've turned out fairly tame. I think you should apologize and recognize England's participation in creating this nation.

...and they aren't terrorists; they're freedom fighters...or at least they were in 1984...oh! wait...

[Laz116]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

Oh, the irony. The same wingnuts who say that government shouldn't interfere with business's ability to, say, exclude people of color are saying government should interfere with business's ability to set rules on what will be displayed on their property.

I don't know the details of this flag thing, and don't trust Fox to deliver anything that even vaguely resembles the truth (or even that they didn't make the whole thing up), but I sure recognize hypocrisy. For example, does the apartment complex have limits on the size of the signs (or on all signs) that they allow? Is this okay, or do we need to say signs can be excluded except when they're American flags. What other exceptions do we need to make? Perhaps favored religious symbols should be allowed?

One more question, though. Does this have anything to do with eBooks? Anything at all?

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

Your analogy black people and this flag thing is absolutely atrocious. In the first instance you disregard a PERSON. In the second instance you disregard a part of the PUBLIC DISPLAY of a persons IDENTITY. There's a vast difference.

What this has to do with ebooks: Nothing, that's why it's in the Lounge.