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Old 06-02-2010, 12:40 PM   #31
rixte
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
I said "practical" monopoly - not monopoly. Amazon had an 80% share of the ebook market. Amazon was threatening the hard back book revenue as ebooks were taking off.

Of course people want $9.99 books when the new release hard backs are $20 and more. They'd be even happier with $5 ebooks. And why not $1 ebooks at the same time the publishers hope to sell those $20 hard backs?

The price was so low that Amazon sold millions of kindles in large measure on the thought that you could save money just on the difference between the hard back and ebook price.

There is no way that the publishers were going to stand for this. All of us who buy paperback books instead of hard backs have had to wait the usual year before we can read our books. Reading a "new release" book was something only people willing to shell out the hard book price could do -- or wait in queue at the local library.

Penguin's pricing will come in line with market reality. The $9.99 price was never "market reality". That was Amazon willing to lose money to capture market share.

Lee
The problem with this argument, though, is that very, very few hard covers sell for their list price (except for a few brick and mortar stores). Most of them are discounted significantly and it's not crushing the publishers. So now we're in the reverse situation on a lot of titles where the ebooks are significantly MORE expensive than the physical books, and there's just no way that's not ridiculous.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
I said "practical" monopoly - not monopoly. Amazon had an 80% share of the ebook market.
Lee
Yes, I saw that. But how big of the overall "book" market is that 80% share? And where do the publishers stop after they've beaten Amazon down?

And I can see some justification for not wanting a "new best seller" going for less then the hardback book. Let them buy the hardback book if they just can't wait.

But rixte is right.

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So now we're in the reverse situation on a lot of titles where the ebooks are significantly MORE expensive than the physical books, and there's just no way that's not ridiculous.
On top of that you have the situation where Amazon has to sell a book at an inflated price where another, like Apple, can sell the SAME book at a discount.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:12 PM   #33
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On top of that you have the situation where Amazon has to sell a book at an inflated price where another, like Apple, can sell the SAME book at a discount.
At least with Amazon ebooks you have the option of reading them via an app on other devices (not dedicated readers). With Apple the only *&#i@ing option is to buy an iPad to get the "low" price.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
The $9.99 price was never "market reality". That was Amazon willing to lose money to capture market share.
Why is $7.99 "market reality" for a book that needs to be printed, bound, warehoused, shipped, shelved, carried about, and returned for a full refund, but $9.99 not "market reality" for a book that needs none of those things?
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:56 PM   #35
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On top of that you have the situation where Amazon has to sell a book at an inflated price where another, like Apple, can sell the SAME book at a discount.
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At least with Amazon ebooks you have the option of reading them via an app on other devices (not dedicated readers). With Apple the only *&#i@ing option is to buy an iPad to get the "low" price.
I have to agree with you but what I was saying is that Apple should have to set the same *&#i@ing price that Amazon is required to use.

And is *&#i@ing any kind of language for a refined lady to use?
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:57 PM   #36
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Because of the publisher's cut.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
I said "practical" monopoly - not monopoly. Amazon had an 80% share of the ebook market. Amazon was threatening the hard back book revenue as ebooks were taking off.

Of course people want $9.99 books when the new release hard backs are $20 and more. They'd be even happier with $5 ebooks. And why not $1 ebooks at the same time the publishers hope to sell those $20 hard backs?

The price was so low that Amazon sold millions of kindles in large measure on the thought that you could save money just on the difference between the hard back and ebook price.

There is no way that the publishers were going to stand for this. All of us who buy paperback books instead of hard backs have had to wait the usual year before we can read our books. Reading a "new release" book was something only people willing to shell out the hard book price could do -- or wait in queue at the local library.

Penguin's pricing will come in line with market reality. The $9.99 price was never "market reality". That was Amazon willing to lose money to capture market share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rixte View Post
The problem with this argument, .....
.... Is that it is completly wrong.

Publishers received the full amount of profit regardless of Hardbook or eBook sale. The price was set by the publisher and Amazon took the hit.

They fought two big fears, one they don't want to change. They'd be happy keeping the pbook model since it is what they know. Second they feared consumers would get use to the $10 price point and later demand that as a price point.

As for market reality I disagree as well. I've bought more books and read more because of the lower price point. The higher price reduces demand and is set by the inefficiency of the publisher. Price has nothing to do with what the market will bear. As a matter of fact, you will see priced continue to reduce since the market is correcting itself.


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Old 06-02-2010, 03:14 PM   #38
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People tend to overestimate the strength of loss-leader policies. Amazon was indeed building a market with a privileged share in it, but eventually they would have had to back off, since loss-leader policies can't be kept in place indefinitely as they are, by definition, unprofitable.
They would have forced the publishers to give greater discount. In fact that had already started to happening.
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:34 PM   #39
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There needs to be some sort of universal model. Like non-reference and non text ebooks can't be sold for over $15.99. Also all best sellers should be $9.99 for a few weeks then go up after that time is over. Also ebooks should not be more than their physical counterpart. If the ebook market continues to grow at a quick pace at some point publishers will be forced to lower prices or die off. Digital is the future and if you aren't willing to except that then you should go the way of the dinosaurs.
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:42 PM   #40
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There needs to be some sort of universal model. Like non-reference and non text ebooks can't be sold for over $15.99. Also all best sellers should be $9.99 for a few weeks then go up after that time is over. Also ebooks should not be more than their physical counterpart. If the ebook market continues to grow at a quick pace at some point publishers will be forced to lower prices or die off. Digital is the future and if you aren't willing to except that then you should go the way of the dinosaurs.
I don't like the idea of saying that you can't change above $9.99 for a best seller, but agree with some points. In my opinion MSRP should be at or below print books, and the publisher should be able to charge whatever the "market" dictates to the reseller (charging each reseller the same price, as volume doesn't or shouldn't matter with an electronic commodity*), but they shouldn't be able to control the resellers price to the consumer. So if the reseller wants to take a loss, let it.

I do think that setting up a group of 5 or however many publishers to price fix shouldn't be lawful. By allowing that, it makes it possible for the "market" to really be a "market" which is dictating price via any kind of competition.

* making allowances for variance in if the publisher has to pay any kind of fees due to DRM/format, but I'd assume not.

Last edited by crazed792; 06-02-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:07 PM   #41
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They would have forced the publishers to give greater discount. In fact that had already started to happening.
You say it as if it would have been troublesome for anyone save for the publishers.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:43 PM   #42
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At least with Amazon ebooks you have the option of reading them via an app on other devices (not dedicated readers). With Apple the only *&#i@ing option is to buy an iPad to get the "low" price.
That was also true of Kindle initially. The ability to read kindle books on other devices is a very new option.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:46 PM   #43
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You say it as if it would have been troublesome for anyone save for the publishers.
It would have been very bad for the readers since the sale of best sellers is making it possible to publish non-best sellers.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:13 PM   #44
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Amazon wasn't necessairly loosing a lot of money either. They may have been selling some bestsellers at a loss for $9.99 but they were also making money selling $9.99 ebook versions of new to paperback releases that were selling for $6.99 - $7.99 in paper.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:15 PM   #45
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Amazon wasn't necessairly loosing a lot of money either. They may have been selling some bestsellers at a loss for $9.99 but they were also making money selling $9.99 ebook versions of new to paperback releases that were selling for $6.99 - $7.99 in paper.
A lot of those $9.99 ebooks with $6.99-$7.99 pbook equivalents had $14.99 list prices as ebooks. Sure they were making money on them, but they were still having to give a pretty good discount.
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