Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Doesn't matter one way or the other (although he was the worlds worst actor after Ronnie Raygun Reagan), because Ol' Marrion was a Mcarthy supporter along with James Stewart, Humphrey Bogart and Elia Kazan. Cowardly to the core the lot of them.

Oh and the flag you're all arguing over whether it should be flown or not, or if you should kiss it every morning while you're pledging your blind allegiance to God and the state, is pretty much seen as a fascist symbol everywhere but America. Fly it, don't fly it, everyone outside the United States of Everything sees black, red and white instead of red, white and blue. Just saying ..<cute face>

Sorry but you are wrong about that. Not that I would have expected anything different from you though. Just saying .. <cute face>

I mean if you evidence to support your statement I'm sure everyone would be glad to read it. Looking forward to it in fact.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

Welcome back!
You promised to never come back!

Dusty did, but Moejoe can't stick seeing all this flag-waving patriotic bullshit and ridiculous sentimentality. Also, if Moejoe doesn't return then you may as well rename this site 'Little America', for all the actual input anybody from Europe and the rest of the world actually gets.

Also, Moejoe must stop talking in the 3rd person before he's carted away.

I still can't believe that you people (Americans not you personally Astra) as a nation put your hand on your heart and swear allegiance to something as ridiculous as country in your classrooms. In England we only pledge allegiance to football and to the queen, when we're drunk... especially when we're drunk.... all other times we consider all that stuff the purview of racists right wing duffers and just to be a lot of old Tommy Rot!

EN-GER-LAND! EN-GER-LAND!

[astra]

I am not American and most likely will never be one.
I do not live in America.
I do not think American flag is anywhere even close to fascist symbol. So, you are wrong in your generalisation.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Sorry but you are wrong about that. Not that I would have expected anything different from you though. Just saying .. <cute face>

I mean if you evidence to support your statement I'm sure everyone would be glad to read it. Looking forward to it in fact.

Which statement? The one about everybody outside of America thinking you're all a bunch of imperialist pigs who don't give a shit about the world? Or the bit about all those actors ratting out their fellow creative types during the McArthy House Un-American Activities witch trials?

Come to Europe. Drape yourself in a flag, that stars and stripesy one will do, but we all know about the Confederate ones and that silly one with the snake on it too. Walk around a bit and see what the reaction is. That flag of yours is sullied the world over (not that it wasn't already).

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

I am not American and most likely will never be one.
I do not live in America.
I do not think American flag is anywhere even close to fascist symbol. So, you are wrong in your generalisation.

See the correction, I put it in while you were replying.

I do think the American flag is a fascist symbol. For me and many others it has the same connotations at the Nazi flag - especially my friends in the middle east and those in muslim countries.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Nazi flag - especially my friends in the middle east and those in muslim countries.

Oh those.

is pretty much seen as a fascist symbol everywhere but America

So, for you they are pretty much everywhere but America?
Uhm.
I hope not. Otherwise pretty much soon we will have to wake up at 5am to alah-akhbar whether we want it or not. Thanks G-d, we still have people who are not cowards and can stand up to their ideas and not let fanatics rule the world.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

Oh those.

So, for you they are pretty much everywhere but America?
Uhm.
I hope not. Otherwise pretty much soon we will have to wake up at 5am to alah-akhbar whether we want it or not. Thanks G-d, we still have people who are not cowards and can stand up to their ideas and not let fanatics rule the world.

Another little fascist comes out of the closet. You don't actually know any Muslims do you? I happen to be related now through my niece's Birth to a Muslim family in Turkey. It is you who are the coward when you think that Muslims the world over are out to get you. Ignorant. Afraid. Possibly a reader of the Daily Mail.

Oh and in case I forget... Salam Malakim (from this Atheist just to piss you off, Oswald).

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Which statement? The one about everybody outside of America thinking you're all a bunch of imperialist pigs who don't give a shit about the world?

That's a racist sentiment - as a non-American, I don't want to be associated with it.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

That's a racist sentiment - as a non-American, I don't want to be associated with it.

Sorry for that one, but this thread and all the patriotic crap really does rub off.

EDIT: I should really clarify it and put it something like - a very great many people outside of the United States of Everything believe that America and by definition the American populace who support the actions of the government are Imperialistic Pigs with no other agenda than death and profits. Also we WILL beat them at Football (not soccer) in the World Cup (the real World Cup, not one of these Baseball World Series things where only America play in it).

Oh and EN-GER-LAND! EN-GER-LAND! (Man blind unquestioning patriotism really is fun)

[astra]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Another little fascist comes out of the closet. You don't actually know any Muslims do you? I happen to be related now through my niece's Birth to a Muslim family in Turkey. It is you who are the coward when you think that Muslims the world over are out to get you. Ignorant. Afraid. Possibly a reader of the Daily Mail.

Oh and in case I forget... Salam Malakim (from this Atheist just to piss you off, Oswald).

I hope that not all of Europe is related to muslims yet, and I will be able to enjoy bells of a local church for a while.
You don't piss me off. On the other hand you show your true face. Violence, bigotry, hatred.
I am afraid of them because they are suicide bombing London Underground, Moscow underground, crash planes into buildings with innocent civilians, suicide bombing shops in Israel, kill good Muslims who happen to think a bit different in Pakistan. They give me plenty of a reason.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

I hope that not all of Europe is related to muslims yet, and I will be able to enjoy bells of a local church for a while.
You don't piss me off. On the hand you show your true face. Violence, bigotry, hatred.
I am afraid of them because they are suicide bombing London Underground, Moscow underground, crash planes into buildings with innocent civilians, suicide bombing shops in Israel, kill good Muslims who happen to think a bit different in Pakistan. They give me plenty of a reason.

HEE-Larious! I advise a nice trip to Leeds or Sheffield during the Eid festival. Some of the best 'muslimy' times you'll have. Man, this forum is just full of old gits isn't it? Where are the lawns that I shall be told to get off of? Oh, and I hear tell the Daily Mail has a subscription... you get double the racist, jingoist, bullshit for half the price this year.

Oh, and FTR I'm a pacifist, I just find patriotism and jingoism Hee-larious to mock. That's why I love this thread so much. Oh, it's such a joy.

EN-GER-LAND! EN-GER-LAND!

Oh and here's one you'll love. An old Anarchist saying - "The only time a church is enlightening is when it's on fire."

[Spoon Man]

Moejoe, please allow me to make some things clear.
This is not a thread based on mind blowing stupidity, but in order to discuss a topic that we Americans find to hit home. Personally, I really don't care what you or any other countries think about us. We are who we are and there are still some of us who will not change that, or try to cover it up, just to please the intolerant masses of the world. If that makes us arrogant, so be it. Muslims are coming off as doing the same thing.

As for your generalization about our beliefs about Muslims, I know a few, as well as Hindu's, Jews, and others. People are people man, but the fact of the matter is some people tend to be less tolerant than others. The people who choose to participate in acts of terrorism do put the rest in a bad light, and that is unfortunate, but most of us actually do see it. That being said, you a rational person would not dispel the acts stated by Astra. These things DID happen, and they will CONTINUE to happen if certain areas of people get their way.

Moejoe, I sincerely disagree with your sentiments. However, you have as much of a right to them as I have to mine. In the end, I would like to believe that if we were standing together in train station or some such area and someone were to lob a grenade, I would throw myself on top of it so you can go about your life. I know many people who feel the same way, and we all happen to live in America, in the South for that matter. If that is a fascist belief than I'll stand by it and the title.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Spoon Man

Moejoe, please allow me to make some things clear.
This is not a thread based on mind blowing stupidity, but in order to discuss a topic that we Americans find to hit home. Personally, I really don't care what you or any other countries think about us. We are who we are and there are still some of us who will not change that, or try to cover it up, just to please the intolerant masses of the world. If that makes us arrogant, so be it. Muslims are coming off as doing the same thing.

As for your generalization about our beliefs about Muslims, I know a few, as well as Hindu's, Jews, and others. People are people man, but the fact of the matter is some people tend to be less tolerant than others. The people who choose to participate in acts of terrorism do put the rest in a bad light, and that is unfortunate, but most of us actually do see it. That being said, you a rational person would not dispel the acts stated by Astra. These things DID happen, and they will CONTINUE to happen if certain areas of people get their way.

Moejoe, I sincerely disagree with your sentiments. However, you have as much of a right to them as I have to mine. In the end, I would like to believe that if we were standing together in train station or some such area and someone were to lob a grenade, I would throw myself on top of it so you can go about your life. I know many people who feel the same way, and we all happen to live in America, in the South for that matter. If that is a fascist belief than I'll stand by it and the title.

These things did happen and they were terrible (my brother missed the train that morning where many of the people were killed). And these things happened because Muslim youth were disenfranchised, ostracised and blamed by society for earlier actions that were actually performed by American-backed, American-trained and Saudi based nutjobs who performed the horrible act on 11/09. If you think it had anything to do with religious affiliation, then you're wrong. Religion was the hook they pinned their anger upon after America so raped the middle east in the years leading up to 11/09.

Bombings were also frequent in my country from the 1960's onwards wtih IRA. And they happened far more frequently and were more devestating overall. Britain also over-reacted then by framing Irish people left right and centre. The same fear that is spread now about Muslims was spread about the Irish during the 70's and it targets the same privileged, white, middle class fears through national media. Oh, and your country, through backdoor deals and quiite brazenly through your communities supported the IRA Terrorism at the time. Shit, terrorism wasn't even a dirty word until it actually hit your shores for the first time.

And you see, it's that not caring of your initial statement that so pisses of the rest of the world. You are an Empire, and you hold the same Empire like notions that the British had at the turn of 1900's. We didn't care either. We just stomped around the world bringing tea-time and genocide with us, not caring. Saluting our bullshit flag and our bullshit royalty, while painting everyone else as subpar and often sub-human. Look how that turned out? (Of course we do still have impeccable taste and we still have the 'U's' in our language).

Salute your flag, but you're saluting a history of genocide, blood-letting, racism, bigotry, invasion and intolerance. And that's what pisses me off and others here. We come here every day and all we get is this trotting out of flags and soldiers and 'gee golly aren't we great' back patting bullshit. I don't want to hear about your stupid flag, or your stupid soldiers, or what country you're raping tomorrow - whether that's economic or cultural.

Just like every other country America invades, you and all the rest of the New Mobileread Patriots have invaded this forum and reduced it to a quasi-political, no discourse, everyone is American series of simplistic grunting, unquestioning gestures. I've lost friends here because I dared stand up to your bullshit, good friends (and because I got angry and wanted to kick a few of you in the head too - naughty pacifist that I am).

if you want to have an America-is-great orgy so badly Fox News has its own forums, you know?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

That's a racist sentiment - as a non-American, I don't want to be associated with it.

Thank you.

I'm sure many feel that way.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Thank you.

I'm sure many feel that way.

I'm surprised you didn't get it confused with theft. You seem to confuse everything else with theft everywhere else on this forum.