Bloomberg: new Kindle in August

[Solicitous]

I don't know how they could make the Kindle any thinner and still keep the unit usable. If the device gets too thin it will be too difficult to hold and use IMHO.

[Dylrob]

I hope thinner means that the screen will be using a plastic substrate.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

I don't know how they could make the Kindle any thinner and still keep the unit usable. If the device gets too thin it will be too difficult to hold and use IMHO.

I agree. The current K2 is already a bit too thin for my liking, so I use it with a case almost exclusively (same with my Cybook Gen3, for that matter).

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

new e-ink film is 15:1 contrast(white is noticeably whiter) vs the current 7-8:1

Wasn't the CEO stating a ~6:1 to a 10-12:1 jump?

Besides, most of us still don't know how it plays out in real-world viewability. Closest I've seen other than the Sriram Peruvemba video has been the video I'm embedding in this post.

In other news...I didn't realize the Kindle was so thick that it needed a slimming job. I'd love to see a fast Kindle (and consequently a faster version of better reading devices), but I have my doubts that there will be a big performance boost.

Keeping fingers crossed.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

I don't know how they could make the Kindle any thinner and still keep the unit usable. If the device gets too thin it will be too difficult to hold and use IMHO.

I might have agreed with you until I bought a Kobo. I believe it is the lightest and thinnest of the mainstream units out there. It's quite a joy (and easy) to hold. Yet the screen real estate is identical to my (beloved) Kindle 2.

So, I'm all for evolving the Kindle into a thinner, higher contrast, wifi enabled, second font option unit which preserves some sort of practical keyboard input and -- I know this is asking too much -- ePub DRM support as well.

I have no idea what the economics of this are, but pushing the K2 down to the $199 price point and keeping the K3 around $259 whilst dropping the DX to $399 ... it starts to look like an attractive family line-up. And maybe a souped up annotation workhorse for the academic crowd with a 10" screen at $499 to keep things interesting.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Wasn't the CEO stating a ~6:1 to a 10-12:1 jump?

Besides, most of us still don't know how it plays out in real-world viewability. Closest I've seen other than the Sriram Peruvemba video has been the video I'm embedding in this post.

In other news...I didn't realize the Kindle was so thick that it needed a slimming job. I'd love to see a fast Kindle (and consequently a faster version of better reading devices), but I have my doubts that there will be a big performance boost.

Keeping fingers crossed.

that video above was taken on thursday in Seattle. I was pretty close by- i think just around the other side actually as i remember them setting up .

I spent some time talking to the gentleman i have circled here.



he's one of the "ink" scientists responsible for creating the e-ink film. he actually just finished creating the samples of color 20-1 and b&w 23:1 the Thursday before. they are on the wall behind the speaker.

The next gen film in that video is the 15-1 film. It's labeled as as such and its what they were telling everyone. it could be that its best case and you may only see 12 in day to day but the whites were significantly brighter than on my pocketbook 360 and the 23:1 was just ridiculously better.

the material isnt significantly thinner so the dimensional change for the kindle would be coming from better hardware design/packaging of the electronics

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

This is about as exciting as a "New and Improved" box of Kleenex.... But they have to have something more than this? Don't they?

Not really.

Amazon planned from the start, for a variety of reasons, to generate income from both the ebooks and the ebook readers.

In comparison, Apple sells hardware and generates around $9 billion in iPhone-type sales per year, but only $1 billion from all its content -- iTunes music, apps and all Mac software, and so forth. They are perfectly happy for Amazon to grab ebook sales, since that's chump change to them and relieves them of the need to work too hard at providing content.

Also, the dynamics of the ebook market are not as flat as you might think. To simplify, there are two separate customer bases: the casual readers (most of the public, who buy 1-10 books a year) and the heavy readers (10+ books per year). The heavy readers are a small percentage of buyers, but spend far more than the masses who barely read; they're also more likely to spring for a dedicated reader, either instead of or -- especially if cheap enough -- in addition to a tablet.

Further, at this time you can read an ebook you purchase from Amazon on your iPhone, your Kindle, your iPad, your Windows netbook, or your desktop computer, all syncing via Whispernet. An iBook can currently only be read on an iPad and that's it.

Thus, the casual reader probably wasn't going to buy a dedicated reader in the first place; and for the heavy readers, each iPad purchase does not necessarily mean one lost sale for the Kindle, or even fewer Kindle ebook sales.

Ergo, Amazon doesn't need to make another iPad. They're better off making a better dedicated device and improving their software.


That said, what does a dedicated ebook reader need? Better performance, a color screen, lower price, better annotations, perhaps a larger screen. Color is probably a year out (maybe more, who knows), so in the meantime they can fix up what they can, without necessarily losing the die-hard 3-or-more-fiction-books-a-month crowd.

[vaughnmr]

For the second time in my life, I'm going to agree with Kali. What's this world coming too...

I'd like to add, now that Amazon has some competition, hopefully we will see better, faster firmware updates, too.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

The next gen film in that video is the 15-1 film. It's labeled as as such and its what they were telling everyone. it could be that its best case and you may only see 12 in day to day but the whites were significantly brighter than on my pocketbook 360 and the 23:1 was just ridiculously better.

the material isnt significantly thinner so the dimensional change for the kindle would be coming from better hardware design/packaging of the electronics

Interesting. I've been thinking of swinging by Computex to see if anything will crop up there, but I've been feeling a bit discouraged as of late.

Anyway, it'd be interesting to see some side-by-sides. Though my heart isn't with E-Ink, it's nice to see some improvement with them, since nobody else has real products out on the market yet.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

That said, what does a dedicated ebook reader need? Better performance, a color screen, lower price, better annotations, perhaps a larger screen. Color is probably a year out (maybe more, who knows), so in the meantime they can fix up what they can, without necessarily losing the die-hard 3-or-more-fiction-books-a-month crowd.

Nothing to argue with there, but I would like to suggest one area that needs *major* improvement:

Human factors engineering; the ergonomics, and two aspects in particular: screen size and control schemes.

Screen size seems to be practically arbitrary, driven more by manufacturing capability than usage profile. This *must* change if dedicated readers are to endure. The "standard" six inch screens are too big to be pocketable, too small in display area for the gadget size size. The aspect ratio is off, too. (And instead, they focus on thinness?)

So far, of the sizes I see on the market there is a gaping hole in usability between the 5 in models (paperback sized and generally pocketable) and the magazine sized 10 in models best suited for indoors use. It may be that the optimum is an 8in 16x10 or a 7" 16x9 but nobody seems to be trying to find out. (The Sony Daily reader is an interesting one but it looks to be a tad too tall or too thin. At least they tried to get closer to an actual book aspect.)

An even bigger issue is the control schemes; except for the odd TXTR or PB360 design, most eReaders take their cues from the button-infested Sony505 or the Kindle's keyboard-ridden button-fest, wasting precious surface area on "features" that, in usage time terms, don't justify the area they consume.
Too many designs seem to give little if any thought to how people actually hold these things, to handedness, and to proper button design (hey, Amazon! Way to go with that tiny, slippery 4-way-switch; you took an excellent control mecanism--the 5-way mini jostick--and made it almost unusable).

So yeah, I'd like to see a K3.
If only to see if they actually do something about ergonomics. Cause the way the secod tier vendors slavishly copy Kindle, I don't think we'll see better controls unti Amazon gets it.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Screen size seems to be practically arbitrary, driven more by manufacturing capability than usage profile. This *must* change if dedicated readers are to endure.

Why? The same is true for "proper" paper books which come in all sizes and shapes. If the ebooks are properly formatted, allowing for reflow, the screen size becomes less of an issue. Not that there isn't room for improvement, obviously.

Agree about the UI in particular.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Why? The same is true for "proper" paper books which come in all sizes and shapes. If the ebooks are properly formatted, allowing for reflow, the screen size becomes less of an issue. Not that there isn't room for improvement, obviously.

Agree about the UI in particular.

Books come in all sizes and shapes (at the publisher's whim) and many of them are a pain to handle.

Ergonomics are precisely about avoiding those "pain to handle" issues.

And I'm sorry but I don't believe *any* screen size will do. Depending on the device or the function, screen size and shape will have a huge impact on the user experience. Having lived with reading devices (pdas, phones, 5 and 6 in eink, tablet PCs in 8, 10, 12 inches) I know from experience that there is a diference in how long-term reading plays out. a 3.5 in screen is actually better than a 4" for a palm-sized device, for example; or an 8in device could be either a single-hand or two hand device solely on how the controls are placed.

There's a whole science dedicated to designing gadgets that are functional and comfortable for humans, not just slabs with an arbitrary window on them. Some sizes and proportions *are* better to hold and to read on.

I know some folks think any screen is the same as any other--it's all dots on glass, after all--but in the real world of proper product design, there are sweet spots of form and function that work significantly better than even things that look to be almost the same but aren't. Sometimes that extra millimeter or five is the difference between a proper scan width and one that breaks the justification algorithm. Or the extra bit of contrast is the difference between a user getting eyestrain or not.

Its a hard thing to get right and taste factors into it but when a product gets it right customer satisfaction goes through the roof.

[dmaul1114]

The problem with that is ideal screen size is subjective.

For me I really want a tablet with a 8.5-11" screen or very close to that size and ratio as it would handle my PDF reading/markup needs. Novels I can read on any screen size above 5" or so as text is text to me--as long as it's big enough to approximate a small paperback.

The big screen would be great for magazines and comics and newspapers. Also good for internet, movie/tv watching etc.

Others just want to read novels and want a small 5" screen they can easily take around with them. Others want an 8" screen as they mainly read at home and want more words per page or larger words etc--but only read novels so they don't need a bigger screen for PDF or magazines etc.

So there will never be a true ideal screen size for everyone.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Books come in all sizes and shapes (at the publisher's whim) and many of them are a pain to handle.

True. But all the more reason to pick the one size that fits your habits, and have the ebooks accommodate the size of the reader. No need/way to find the one "true" size since everybody's probably different.

And I'm sorry but I don't believe *any* screen size will do.

Not exactly "any", of course, we're talking about reasonable limits here.

Depending on the device or the function, screen size and shape will have a huge impact on the user experience.

Yes, but again, everybody will have to decide this for themselves. I don't belieev in "one size fits all", never have.

Some sizes and proportions *are* better to hold and to read on.

I'm all in favor of ergonomics. The kindle is an abomination in that regard but it's got nothing to do with screen size.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

So there will never be a true ideal screen size for everyone.

Correct.
I said that there were sweet spots; I'm not talking about a one-size fits all solution, but a series of optimized designs.

That's why I was ranting about the six inch "standard" that's being deployed in all the misfit cases.

I also pointed out that 5 and 10 inches appear to be sweet spots that have broad appeal. Six inches, on the other hand doesn't seem to be as broadly useful despite being the most common size; you see a lot of comments about how the device comes out a "tweener"; bigger than a (pocketable) paperback but smaller and not as much text space as a hardcover.

I don't pretend that there is a *single* sweet spot in that (pretty broad) range, but I would like to see it explored so we can see which sizes and aspect ratios (plural) actually work for significant numbers of people.

The good news is that with the flood of cheap tablets headed to market we *are* going to see a lot of variety and we may get some answers as to what works and why. (Look at the evolution of netbooks from 7" 4x3 to 10" and 11", as the product matured.) The tablets announced so far run from 5" 16x9 to 10 and even 12". Every vendor has their own idea of the proper size. And odds are some are going to be better for ebooks and others better for web/media pad use. Eventually there will be enough data to see which work best for the biggest number of people for a given function.

By the next-gen, say 2012, we might even see some good ergonomics, too, and not just plain slabs.