Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[Logseman]

The matter itself is simple, and a beaten horse in this thread, even, but I feel it's good to repeat it: if the flag is his, and the space where he is to display it is his, he can put a US flag, a Union Jack, a rainbow LGBT flag or a Hakenkreuz if that's his liking.

HOWEVER, isn't it thought-provoking that national flags are usually hijacked by bloodthirsty jingoists who prostitute their use until any decent citizen refuses to let it have a space in his/her life? And isn't it thought-provoking that it happens everywhere, in the US, the UK, in Spain in my case, in Germany from what I've seen in the year I've spent there, and so on?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by obs20

According to Gary Wills’ book “John Wayne’s America,” the man who portrayed the archetypal, battle-hardened Marine, Sgt. Stryker, in 1949’s “The Sands of Iwo Jima,” actually avoided the draft during WWII. Wills contends that the Duke did not reply to letters from the Selective Service system, and applied for deferments. Apparently, Wayne—who had sought stardom during years of B-pictures following Raoul Walsh’s 1930 frontier drama “The Big Trail”—got his big break during the struggle against fascism when many Hollywood action heroes like Tyrone Power enlisted and shipped out overseas.

With much of the competition away in the Pacific and European theaters, Wayne was able to storm movie theaters to solidify his stardom. While Jimmy Stewart and his fellow celebrity servicemen were real action heroes, Wayne was a “Lights! Cameras! Action!” hero who merely played the part in the safety of Tinseltown’s home front and back lot.

Director John Ford discovered Wayne when he was on USC’s football team, and with his rugged physique, the 6-foot-4-inch Duke was identified with American machismo.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...of_john_wayne/

My father, a combat vet who was awarded The Bronze Star in WWII, couldn't stand Wayne and is posturing. I consider myself a reluctant Vietnam era vet. That said, I never felt the need to wave the flag in order to show my patriotism. It's absolutely ridiculous to believe that USA patriots are discriminated in the USA.

And I say SO WHAT?

I still think your comment was out of line.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by obs20

According to Gary Wills’ book “John Wayne’s America,” the man who portrayed the archetypal, battle-hardened Marine, Sgt. Stryker, in 1949’s “The Sands of Iwo Jima,” actually avoided the draft during WWII. Wills contends that the Duke did not reply to letters from the Selective Service system, and applied for deferments. Apparently, Wayne—who had sought stardom during years of B-pictures following Raoul Walsh’s 1930 frontier drama “The Big Trail”—got his big break during the struggle against fascism when many Hollywood action heroes like Tyrone Power enlisted and shipped out overseas.

With much of the competition away in the Pacific and European theaters, Wayne was able to storm movie theaters to solidify his stardom. While Jimmy Stewart and his fellow celebrity servicemen were real action heroes, Wayne was a “Lights! Cameras! Action!” hero who merely played the part in the safety of Tinseltown’s home front and back lot.

Director John Ford discovered Wayne when he was on USC’s football team, and with his rugged physique, the 6-foot-4-inch Duke was identified with American machismo.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...of_john_wayne/

My father, a combat vet who was awarded The Bronze Star in WWII, couldn't stand Wayne and is posturing. I consider myself a reluctant Vietnam era vet. That said, I never felt the need to wave the flag in order to show my patriotism. It's absolutely ridiculous to believe that USA patriots are discriminated in the USA.

gee, funny how it doesn't mention that he tried to get into the Naval Academy and was rejected (LONG before WWII), then was injured while at USC ending not only his football career, but any realistic military aspirations. by the time WWII DID come around he was a contract actor that the studio would not release even though he asked to be let go. he was able, however to perform some services for the OSS. oh, and he was 34 by that time. not exactly a kid of draft age. his lack of military service pained him his entire life and it wasn't for lack of trying

Originally Posted by kennyc

And I say SO WHAT?

I still think your comment was out of line.

especially when he didn't have the whole story

[BuddyBoy]

Originally Posted by obs20

I can't stand that Draft Dodging drugstore cowboy

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...a-draft-dodger

[BuddyBoy]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

by the time WWII DID come around he was a contract actor that the studio would not release even though he asked to be let go

Source?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by BuddyBoy

Source?

when he was in "The Cowboys" I started keeping a scrapbook about him (it's long gone). these are just little tidbits that I remember. along with him having fairly small feet and a law degree. and his real name was Marion. and I think his nickname, "Duke" was from a dog

[obs20]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

gee, funny how it doesn't mention that he tried to get into the Naval Academy and was rejected (LONG before WWII), then was injured while at USC ending not only his football career, but any realistic military aspirations. by the time WWII DID come around he was a contract actor that the studio would not release even though he asked to be let go. he was able, however to perform some services for the OSS. oh, and he was 34 by that time. not exactly a kid of draft age. his lack of military service pained him his entire life and it wasn't for lack of trying

He was of Draft age. The Selective Service Act of 1940 was amended to require that all men 18 to 65 register for the draft and men 18 to 45 be ready to serve.
Wayne did lose his football scholarship at USC due to an injury which had nothing to do with football. Nevertheless the Draft board did classify him 1A and he would have been called if Republic Pictures did not intercede on his behalf and obtain a 2A classification. This is the same classification that firefighters, police and other people with important jobs receive.

This being The Memorial Day Holiday, I would rather not be discussing the merits of The Duke as a "would be" national role model. I think it's time to give thought to real heroes rather than celluloid ones. This is my last post on this thread.

[sabredog]

This is not limited to the USA either. Local councils here in Australia are getting complaints about flag poles in residential front yards flying the Australian flag.

Yes indeed, the handwringers and lunatic lefters are into every part of our lives now.

[SpiderMatt]

I don't have time to read through all these pages, and after some brief browsing, I think this point has been made a few times, but I thought I'd drop in my two cents. I think a private business should be able to set any policy it wants. There's an argument to be made about whether an apartment complex SHOULD ban the American flag from being displayed by residents but I hope no one is trying to argue about whether the complex has the RIGHT to make such a demand on the people staying on its property. I say this as a recent navy vet who now lives in an apartment. I would never try to tell someone else what he can do with his property. Whether it really is good business or not is another thing entirely. It could backfire, especially with enough negative press.

If service members really are protecting the freedom of our country's citizens, then the idea of commanding respect should be anathema to those service members. Whether it be forcing a company to provide a forum to show the flag or forcing kids to say the pledge of allegiance (or even acknowledge it), that is a restriction on freedom. I would much rather people be brought up on critical thinking skills so that they might decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. In a truly free society, people are going to do and say things that upset others. That's the beauty of it. Freedom is being able to do and say these things without fear of reprisal, as long as the original deeds don't infringe on others' rights to life, liberty, and property. I don't expect respect or patriotism. I certainly wouldn't try to demand it from anyone. If it's forced, it's probably not sincere, anyway. In this specific case, the people are more than welcome to let their lease run out and move into a complex more accepting of displaying flags. The first company might eventually come around to the idea that it's not best for their business to hamper such freedom of expression. Then again, maybe not. Who cares? It's their property. Don't use it.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by obs20

This being The Memorial Day Holiday, I would rather not be discussing the merits of The Duke as a "would be" national role model. I think it's time to give thought to real heroes rather than celluloid ones. This is my last post on this thread.

I thought he was an actor? Don't actors play roles - isn't it the characters portrayed in those roles that might stand as role models? You seem to be suggesting that, because he was a draft dodger he should not have played the role of a war hero. But that's what actors do - they pretend to be someone else - gay men play straight men, American women play English women, rich people play poor people. Maybe the fact that you seem to be blurring the line between the roles that he played and the person that he was is an indicator of how good an actor he was, (or possibly not).

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by obs20

He was of Draft age. The Selective Service Act of 1940 was amended to require that all men 18 to 65 register for the draft and men 18 to 45 be ready to serve.
Wayne did lose his football scholarship at USC due to an injury which had nothing to do with football. Nevertheless the Draft board did classify him 1A and he would have been called if Republic Pictures did not intercede on his behalf and obtain a 2A classification. This is the same classification that firefighters, police and other people with important jobs receive.

This being The Memorial Day Holiday, I would rather not be discussing the merits of The Duke as a "would be" national role model. I think it's time to give thought to real heroes rather than celluloid ones. This is my last post on this thread.

your information stands incorrect. I have no need of hero worship. my son is a real live one. numerous combat medals as a SEAL.

[wodin]

This thread has been HIJACKED!!!!

[kennyc]

By who? What? By the one who started it?

[Moejoe]

Doesn't matter one way or the other (although he was the worlds worst actor after Ronnie Raygun Reagan), because Ol' Marrion was a Mcarthy supporter along with James Stewart, Humphrey Bogart and Elia Kazan. Cowardly to the core the lot of them.

Oh and the flag you're all arguing over whether it should be flown or not, or if you should kiss it every morning while you're pledging your blind allegiance to God and the state, is pretty much seen as a fascist symbol everywhere but America. Fly it, don't fly it, everyone outside the United States of Everything sees black, red and white instead of red, white and blue. Just saying ..<cute face>

[astra]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Oh and the flag you're all arguing over whether it should be flown or not, or if you should kiss it every morning while you're pledging your blind allegiance to God and the state, is pretty much seen as a fascist symbol everywhere but America. Fly it, don't fly it, everyone outside the United States of Everything sees black, red and white instead of red, white and blue. Just saying ..<cute face>

Welcome back!
You promised to never come back!