Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by omk3

That's in all the countries I've been, some more than others. I feel uncomfortable seeing flags everywhere, why do they need to shout out the blindingly obvious?

Not hanging your beliefs out your window for the world to see is a matter of aesthetics for me, not of freedom of speech.

Because for the people that are flying the flags they aren't doing it to let everyone know where they are, they are flying them so that people that see them know that the person that put the flag up is proud of their flag and the country, organization, group, etc. that it represents.

I agree that is about aesthetics, unfortunately it is right on the blurry line of free speech as well.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by recluse

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. If you have some deep seated loathing for the flag, don't fly it. I am proud to be an American, I can fly the flag if I want to. When I want to. No harm in that. That's the price of Freedom.

Want to know what bothers me? (Probably not, but I'm going to tell you anyway.) It's not the flag burning, the flag loathing, or Sean Hannity spouting idiocy. It's hyphens -- yup, hyphens as in Polish-American, African-American, Italian-American, Mexican-American, etc.

I was born and raised in the USA; I've never lived in the land from which relatives of years past emigrated to the USA. I have no desire to live anywhere but the USA. I am an American -- no hyphens needed to say that or describe me -- for all its good and all its bad. If I don't like something, I protest in accordance with the liberties afforded me as an American and I take my protest to the ballot box; I don't pick up an assault rifle and start shooting up the neighborhood.

It really bugs me when someone who is a third-generation American calls them self xyz-American and flies the xyz flag. If it is so bad to be an American and if xyz is so much better, emigrate. Unlike many countries, America won't stop you from leaving.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Because for the people that are flying the flags they aren't doing it to let everyone know where they are, they are flying them so that people that see them know that the person that put the flag up is proud of their flag and the country, organization, group, etc. that it represents.

I agree that is about aesthetics, unfortunately it is right on the blurry line of free speech as well.

If I were a spy or a terrorist, I'd definitely post a flag. It's the best cover...

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Personnally I think that overuse of a symbol as important as a flag is diminishing the power of its effect. There are places and times for its use to remind us why it's there. More display than that and it loses seriousness. That is something difficult to judge but some people definitely exagerate.

I suppose this comes down on beauty in the eye of the beholder. I have no problem with seeing properly displayed well tended flags all of the time, wherever anyone wants to display them, in accordance with the first part of this statement

Originally Posted by Sparrow

No, the point I was making was that people in other nations attend church.

my point was and is that the people sitting in that church won their rights to worship how and where they wanted through a hard fought battle which is represented by the flag. one of the founding tenets doncha know... freedom of religion... gotta respect what gives you the freedoms.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

back in my Christian affiliated days, shortly after I came back from Germany the first time, I was elected as an elder in my Presbyterian Church. when I was growing up in that same Church, there was always the Church flag and the American flag in the front of the sanctuary, off to each side bracketing the cross high on the wall. while I had been gone, a spate of political correctness had infused the Church and the flags had been moved to the narthax. I moved them back to the front of the sanctuary. the next week they were back in the narthax. I moved them back... this went on for a month. finally one Sunday I waited in the narthax until the "announcements" had started, and brought the American flag back up front and put it back in its place. I excused myself to the congregation, went up to the pulpit and said something along the lines of; "this flag behind me is the symbol of what gives you the freedom to sit in these seats and look at the symbol of your religion up above you. if this congregation has found it untenable to have the symbol of freedom in their view while gazing at the symbol of their religion, then maybe I need to rethink my participation in this church. I'll be open for discussion of this topic at the next meeting of the session." the flag never moved again, and no one came to talk about it.

Like Iphinome, I was wondering why people need to display the flag outside their homes, not on public buildings. On public buildings it makes sense.

However, it is my firm belief that country and religion are two separate things and should stay separate. Surely people from the same country are free to have different religions from each other, and people from different countries can share the same religion. The state should protect everyone's right to believe (or not, obviously) in anything they choose, and the church(es) should respect the state and not meddle. I don't think a place of worship is a place for national flags. (not that I care much, being a fan of neither, but the combination may lead to dangerous outcomes)

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

my point was and is that the people sitting in that church won their rights to worship how and where they wanted through a hard fought battle which is represented by the flag. one of the founding tenets doncha know... freedom of religion... gotta respect what gives you the freedoms.

Fair enough, I don't know enough about the particulars on your side of the pond to debate that meaningfully.

But, over here, we see many people trying to impose their own interpretations of various symbols on to others. I think symbols have personal meanings which are unique to an individual.
It doesn't seem right, imho, to say " 'y' symbolises 'x' " - because that's stating an opinion as if it was a fact.
I think it would be more accurate to say is "to me 'y' symbolises 'x'." That would state their own interpretation, but also recognise that other views could be held.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Because for the people that are flying the flags they aren't doing it to let everyone know where they are, they are flying them so that people that see them know that the person that put the flag up is proud of their flag and the country, organization, group, etc. that it represents.

I agree that is about aesthetics, unfortunately it is right on the blurry line of free speech as well.

Yes, but that implies that the majority of the people of the country (any country), who are not flying any flag, are not 'proud' of their country or happy to be there... By just being there and being a responsible member of the community/country/whatever you are doing so much more than flying a flag. It seems somehow aggressive to me.

[wodin]

It would appear that the dastardly capitalistic evil Midwest Realty Management company has decided that it is in their economic best interest to not piss off the rest of the country after all.

[GlennD]

Like any other symbol, the flag means different things to different people. To me, it's a daily reminder of a couple hundred years of sacrifices that have been made to preserve liberty in this country. It helps me remember to be grateful to those who fought and bled for my liberty, as well as to God that He supported the founding of this nation.

Flying the flag only on public buildings, to me, would be much like going back to the days when only priests were allowed to read and study the scriptures. A country founded "by the people and for the people" should be acknowledged by the people, not just public institutions.

[omk3]

I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed, I just don't see why you would need to.
And "going back to the days when only priests were allowed to read and study the scriptures", why is that? A flag on a public building or a square is there to be viewed by all, it's not hidden in a private library.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by omk3

I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed, I just don't see why you would need to.
And "going back to the days when only priests were allowed to read and study the scriptures", why is that? A flag on a public building or a square is there to be viewed by all, it's not hidden in a private library.

for me, it is that we are ALL involved. it is not just a government only institution. you know, that whole "by the people, for the people" I have as much right to my flag as any government institution does

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

for me, it is that we are ALL involved. it is not just a government only institution. you know, that whole "by the people, for the people" I have as much right to my flag as any government institution does

I don't think anyone here is saying you don't have the right. I'm saying flying a flag over a government building makes perfect sense, it marks it as a government building giving the flag a practical use, look up and say hey that building must be some sort of official government thing. Flying a flag from a ship tells you where it comes from when you're on the high seas or in a foreign port. These flags serve a useful purpose as would a flag patch on an official uniform. I'm clueless what purpose is served by flying one over a Walmart. What message is being sent and what does it imply about people who aren't flying a flag? Does a flag over walmart mean they're a governemnt building does the corporation own us? Could i vote for target and then the get the flag?

The problem is I see a flag as a useful tool like a pencil.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

I'm clueless what purpose is served by flying one over a Walmart.

The same purpose as having the national anthem and pledges of allegiance at sporting events-- it panders to widespread, mainstream nationalism.

[recluse]

Being a proud American is not wrong, evil or stupid.
My neighbor has an Italian flag in his yard.
No one can tell him he can't.
I have an American flag in mine.
No one can tell me I can't.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by recluse

Being a proud American is not wrong, evil or stupid.
My neighbor has an Italian flag in his yard.
No one can tell him he can't.
I have an American flag in mine.
No one can tell me I can't.

That came off as rather angry. The topic seems to cover a homeowners association that stopped someone but i don't see anyone in this thread telling YOU that you can't.