Boy am I now confused

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Adam B.

I disagree. The iLiad is an absolute joy to read PDF's on, especially after you do the initial zoom and use the full screen viewer.

I have about 80 PDFs. Only 2 are readable without zoom. Maybe 10 are readable after zooming.

All the rest require scrolling to read, making it very cumbersome, and slow seeing how long it takes eInk to refresh the screen.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Please don't confuse "never having bought a DRM-ed book" with "lack of knowledge", Lauzon. I've been reading eBooks for something like 20 years, and am very well aware of precisely what DRM does and does not permit one to do. I am very much an "informed buyer".

When you've encountered, first hand, what it feels like to not be able to use your legally purchased content because of DRM, I'll believe you are informed.

Until then, I cannot believe you.

[Adam B.]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I have about 80 PDFs. Only 2 are readable without zoom. Maybe 10 are readable after zooming.

All the rest require scrolling to read, making it very cumbersome, and slow seeing how long it takes eInk to refresh the screen.

With Letter size PDF's, I can zoom and pan and view the entire PDF half a page at a time without issues...

[narve]

I feel like I have to share my feelings as well. Hopefully without turning this into a DRM/Anti-DRM discussion.

1) I totally love Fictionwise and the other ebook vendors. One of the best things is that my books are always available on my virtual bookshelf, I don't need to manage my files, carry them on a stick, put them on a web server or whatever. I can do that (I am a computer professional), but is is a hassle. Easier to download them whenever I want. And of course "instant satisfaction": If I buy a book, I have it within 2 minutes. No waiting 2-10 days for Amazon... no huge bookshelf, never again "not enough space for more books".

2) I feel most PDFs work OK. Some zooming/moving first, and then they work. The settings are stored, so next time you open your manual they are displayed the same way. Far from perfect, and not all PDFs are OK, but almost all of them work out OK. Also some apps are available to convert the PDFS to a more suitable format.

3) Lots of books are available without DRM.

4) If you spend some time learning/surfing, you can always remove the DRM. I would not feel even remotely "illegal" if I removed the DRM from content I have bought. In many countries it is legal (and only in US is it _really_ illegal).

To sum up: The iLiad did not fulfill my "technical" expectations, and I haven't got around to using it to its full potential. Mostly because I've been busy reading lots and lots of books and enjoying it all the time

I think I've bought my last "dead tree" book... at least I prefer the digital ones!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

When you've encountered, first hand, what it feels like to not be able to use your legally purchased content because of DRM, I'll believe you are informed.

Until then, I cannot believe you.

Lauzon - I don't mean to be impolite, but I really don't give a damn whether you believe me or not. I am perfectly well informed about DRM, and your "belief" in this fact is completely irrelevent.

Unlike you, I don't regard a book as a "lifetime investment". I regard spending $10 on a book as on a par with spending $10 on a takeaway pizza. It brings me a few hours of pleasure. If I can repeat that pleasure without paying my $10 again next year, well that's a "bonus", but I'd still buy the book even for the single reading. Most of the paperback books I buy, I read and throw away. I don't resell them, and I don't re-read them.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Unlike you, I don't regard a book as a "lifetime investment". I regard spending $10 on a book as on a par with spending $10 on a takeaway pizza.

Which puts you in the minority of book readers.

Originally Posted by HarryT

It brings me a few hours of pleasure. If I can repeat that pleasure without paying my $10 again next year, well that's a "bonus", but I'd still buy the book even for the single reading.

I can understand that. It's a simple value proposition.

But you still haven't responded to the question I've put before you at least twice now:
Why would someone pay more for the locked down DRMed eBook than the pBook?

Using the concrete example I used before: Why would someone pay $26 for the locked up eBook of Spook Country from Fictionwise when they can get the unrestricted pBook from Amazon.com for $16?

[petermillard]

This a private discussion, or can anyone join in

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Why would someone pay $26 for the locked up eBook of Spook Country from Fictionwise when they can get the unrestricted pBook from Amazon.com for $16?

Instant gratification? Desire to read it in a convenient form say, for traveling (e.g. not a hardback book)? Enough disposable income that the extra ten bucks doesn't make a difference? Or maybe someone who just doesn't want any more of their home space taken up with dead tree books?

As for the price difference, here in the UK the hardback sells from Amazon for roughly the equivalent of $23, so paying $26 is no big deal even if you don't fall into the above categories.

Anyway, thanks for the heads-up; I'm a big Gibson fan, and didn't realise he had a new one out

Best, Pete.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by petermillard

Instant gratification?

Local bookstore is still cheaper (at least around my place).

Originally Posted by petermillard

Desire to read it in a convenient form say, for traveling (e.g. not a hardback book)?

I can see that. I just can't see that being worth $10.

Originally Posted by petermillard

Enough disposable income that the extra ten bucks doesn't make a difference?

Hmmm... Maybe I should become an eBook author. I could use money from a bunch of those kinds of people.

Originally Posted by petermillard

Or maybe someone who just doesn't want any more of their home space taken up with dead tree books?

The pBook is of much better value since it can be resold after you finish reading it.

Originally Posted by petermillard

As for the price difference, here in the UK the hardback sells from Amazon for roughly the equivalent of $23, so paying $26 is no big deal even if you don't fall into the above categories.

Well, I'm trying to keep this an Apples-to-Apples comparison.

[bigumpah]

Martin,

Congratulations on your new purchase. I've had the Iliad for roughly a month and am certain that you will you enjoy your new ereader.

If you wish to learn about optimizing your PDFs, consider reading this post at the Irex forum, http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=44. My personal experience using this format with the Iliad is limited, as I've only owned the device for roughly a month. My recent wedding and Iliad's screen malfunction has prohibited me from making full use of the device.

I was somewhat disappointed when I tried porting my Intranet pdf files to my Iliad. Granted, my expectations may have been somewhat unrealistic. Nonetheless, I was able to read my corporate PDF files when switching the view mode to landscape while tweaking with the zoom settings. I did have a rather pleasant experience reading the pdf books that I downloaded from manybooks.net for my honeymoon. They required only minor zoom adjustments in order to be read comfortably. I also downloaded RWood's Harvard Classics in PRC format. They were a delight to read in Mobipocket.

Regarding DRM, since I collect and often reread books, I remain skeptical of any proprietary scheme that would hinder me from transfering my books from my current device to a future one. I believe that it is somewhat ridiculous to purchase an ebook if I can own the tangible product for the same or lesser price. I personally, find no value in such a purchase. I realize that as individuals, we may have different and opposing viewpoints. Yet I must confess, I do not know many people who purchase books at their current exorbitant prices only to throw or give them to other people. The good news is that the ebook phenomena is still at its infancy stage, and as it matures, we will surely be presented with viable alternatives than the current DRM offerings.

Having said that, I wait eagerly for my repaired Iliad's return, so that I can visit the Mobipocket site and purchase the Sword of Shannara Trilogy for the sweet price of only $9.95. The price is just right enough to lure me to buy the books despite my paranoia; however, I will be livid if I one day discover that they are no longer compatible or portable with any ereader device that I may buy in the future. After having just shelled out $700 dollars, I hope that it will be in the very distant future...

Vincent

[HappyMartin]

Thanks everyone for all the enthusiastic and helpful replies to this post. It started with me being not sure if I should take the ebook plunge or not and somewhere in the middle of it I bought the Iliad. Harry was a big help and so was rlauzon and Vincent. We all have different requirements from our reading and that will lead I suppose to some heated exchanges. My main concern was, and still is to some extent, that I wont get a good immersive reading experience from an e reader. We will see.

Books are very expensive in South Africa and disposable income much lower than in the first world when measured in $ terms in which books are ultimately priced. I see lots of books available at what to me seem to be reasonable prices. variety online is also better than what is available locally. Amazon is not fast to our end of the world and we must go through a customs process and pay duties. So much for 'friction'. I cannot deny that a major push to purchase a reader is outside those issues and has more to do with curiosity and the desire to own a new cool thing. The heated exchanges also made me feel left out.

Thank you again everyone for your time and advice

[petermillard]

Martin, congrats on your new purchase, and thanks for laying out your justifications so succinctly - was that for our benefit or yours, lol! Just out of interest, did you (or anyone else) manage to get your hands on an iliad before you bought one, or are you buying 'unseen'. I'm still on the fence regarding a dedicated reader; I'm sure having one in my hands for ten minutes would help me make the jump, but it seems to be absurdly difficult to organise (more friction).

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Local bookstore is still cheaper (at least around my place)... I'm trying to keep this an Apples-to-Apples comparison.

Well that was kind of my point; round my place, that is an apples-to-apples comparison. And incidentally, my local bookshop has Spook Country listed for the equivalent of $28...

The pBook is of much better value since it can be resold after you finish reading it.

I appreciate that your experiences may well be different to mine, and if you can sell books on at a price that makes it worth the effort, then good on you, but round here you can't even give them away - literally, even charity shops are refusing to take books, as they take up space and nobody buys them. Sad fact of life, I'm afraid.

Cheers, Pete.

[HappyMartin]

Peter, my justifications were for my wife. I have never seen the Iliad nor any other reader, that partly explains the sweaty palms at the time of purchase. I am taking quite a risk but its just money, never enough of the stuff but no need to treat it with exaggerated respect.

[HarryT]

I'm sure you won't regret it, Martin. Reading on the iLiad is a pleasure. Very comfortable to hold and the screen is wonderful.

[HarryT]

Certainly it will. The clarity of the text has nothing to do with the format of the original file.

[Adam B.]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly it will. The clarity of the text has nothing to do with the format of the original file.

Not to be confusing, but I moved that post to a new thread in the Sony forum since he was asking specifically about the Sony Reader and BBeB